Feynman's Lectures volume III (Ch:8) -- Resolution of vector states

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Discussion Overview

This discussion revolves around the resolution of vector states as presented in Feynman's Lectures, specifically focusing on the mathematical framework of inner products, state evolution, and the implications of operators in quantum mechanics. The participants explore concepts related to time evolution, measurement, and potential spatial evolution operators.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the resolution of state vectors and the definition of inner products, questioning how states change instantly without time dependence.
  • Another participant suggests that the inner product can be understood as a mathematical projection, linking it to measurement probabilities in quantum mechanics.
  • There is a discussion about whether an operator like \(\langle i|U(r_2,r_1)| j \rangle\) makes sense, with some arguing it is not an operator but an amplitude.
  • Participants explore the analogy between time evolution operators and potential spatial evolution operators, questioning the physical meaning of such operators.
  • One participant discusses the expectation value of operators and the connection to experimental measurements, emphasizing the importance of eigenstates in making observable predictions.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of a generator of spatial translation, linking it to momentum and the translation operator in quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of operators and the physical meaning of spatial evolution, with no consensus reached on the validity of spatial evolution operators or their implications in quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the definitions of operators and inner products, as well as the implications of measurement in quantum mechanics. There is also a lack of clarity on the mathematical and physical interpretations of certain constructs.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and practitioners of quantum mechanics, particularly those exploring the mathematical foundations of state vectors, operators, and measurement theory.

Ishika_96_sparkles
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TL;DR
Regarding to the 'resolution of vector states' and the "waiting operator" connecting two states.
In the section 8-2 dealing with resolving the state vectors, we learn that

|\phi \rangle =\sum_i C_i | i \rangle​

and the dual vector is defined as

\langle \chi | =\sum_j D^*_j \langle j |​
Then, the an inner product is defined as

\langle \chi | \phi \rangle =\sum_{ij} D^*_j C_i \langle j | i \rangle = \sum_{ij} D^*_j C_i \delta_{ij}​
This is defined as the amplitude to go from state

| \phi \rangle \rightarrow \langle \chi |​

later, we encounter the concept of time evolution of the state in sec. 8-3 i.e.

\langle \chi |U(t_2,t_1)| \phi \rangle​

implying that an operator (time dependent) is involved and is defined as

\langle i|U(t_2,t_1)| j \rangle​

meaning that this operator links the base states | j \rangle and \langle i| in the time interval \Delta t= t_2-t_1.

We are told that the evolution of the state vector is via the explicit time dependence of the coefficients C_i (t) while the basis vectors are constant.

Q1) The previous inner product as defined in the sec. 8-2 had no involvement of the change over time of the state vectors. Then how does one state changes to the other, instantly? Should it be understood in terms of the usual mathematical projection operation? Then in that case, the sentence "...the amplitude to go from |\phi\rangle to \langle \chi |..." is just the magnitude/extent of the projection of one state over the other state?

Q2) Does an operator like \langle i|U(r_2,r_1)| j \rangle between the two states make any sense? If not then why not? If yes, then could it be considered some sort of spatial evolution operator? and in that case, what would the spatial variation or the spatial derivative of the Hamiltonian matrix \frac{d H_{ij}}{d r_2} imply? Then, the coefficients will have explicit dependence over the space i.e. C_i (x). [Motivation: ψ(r,t) i.e. the wave-function.]
 
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Ishika_96_sparkles said:
Q1) The previous inner product as defined in the sec. 8-2 had no involvement of the change over time of the state vectors.
You simply need to consider the states at a given time ##t##.

Ishika_96_sparkles said:
Then how does one state changes to the other, instantly? Should it be understood in terms of the usual mathematical projection operation? Then in that case, the sentence "...the amplitude to go from |\phi\rangle to \langle \chi |..." is just the magnitude/extent of the projection of one state over the other state?
Yes and no. Mathematically, it is simply an inner product, as in regular linear algebra. However, physics adds the concept of measurement. Should a measurement be performed on ##| \psi \rangle##, then the probability of finding the system in state ##| \chi \rangle## is ##| \langle \chi | \psi \rangle##, provided that ##| \chi \rangle## is a possible outcome of that measurement (an eigenstate of the corresponding measurement operator).
Ishika_96_sparkles said:
Q2) Does an operator like \langle i|U(r_2,r_1)| j \rangle between the two states make any sense?
What you wrote there is not an operator, but an amplitude. ##U(r_2,r_1)## alone is the operator.

Ishika_96_sparkles said:
If not then why not? If yes, then could it be considered some sort of spatial evolution operator? and in that case, what would the spatial variation or the spatial derivative of the Hamiltonian matrix \frac{d H_{ij}}{d r_2} imply? Then, the coefficients will have explicit dependence over the space i.e. C_i (x). [Motivation: ψ(r,t) i.e. the wave-function.]
I don't understand what you are getting at here.
 
Thank you for your answer.

DrClaude said:
However, physics adds the concept of measurement. Should a measurement be performed on |ψ⟩, then the probability of finding the system in state |χ⟩ is |⟨χ|ψ⟩| provided that |χ⟩| is a possible outcome of that measurement (an eigenstate of the corresponding measurement operator).

So, is this what it means? If we have a state |\psi \rangle and we take the following inner product
\langle \psi| \hat{\mathbf{r}}| \psi \rangle
then,we would get the probability to find the system in a certain position Eigenstate | \mathbf{r} \rangle, after making a measurement on the state? where, we could write \langle \psi | \hat{\mathbf{r}} as \langle \chi |.
DrClaude said:
I don't understand what you are getting at here.

Since, the wave-function is given by \psi(r,t), then just as there is an operator of time evolution of the state, could we not have something that ``''spatially evolves'' the states across the state space? Like some spatial evolution of the states facilitated by an operator U(r_2,r_1) i.e. in some interval \Delta r. This is just an attempt to make an analogy with the time evolution operator. Here, the operator connects two states existing at two different points in state space.

My question is, as to whether this kind of operator is physically meaningful?


The rest of the mathematical relations given are just put in 1-to-1 correspondence with the derivations given in sec. 8-3 for the time evolution operator but with variable 't' replaced by the variable 'r'.
 
Ishika_96_sparkles said:
So, is this what it means? If we have a state |\psi \rangle and we take the following inner product
\langle \psi| \hat{\mathbf{r}}| \psi \rangle
then,we would get the probability to find the system in a certain position Eigenstate | \mathbf{r} \rangle, after making a measurement on the state? where, we could write \langle \psi | \hat{\mathbf{r}} as \langle \chi |.
Mathematically, this works, but physically, some of the meaning is lost. The expectation value of an operator over an arbitrary state ##| \psi \rangle## is
$$
\langle O \rangle = \langle \psi | \hat{O} | \psi \rangle
$$
so there is a connection with actual experiments: if you measure ##O## on an ensemble of identical systems prepared in state ##| \psi \rangle##, the average of the measurements will be ##\langle O \rangle##.

You could define a state ##| \chi \rangle \equiv \hat{O} | \psi \rangle## and then calculate the probability of finding the system in state ##| \chi \rangle##, but unless ##\psi \rangle## is an eigenstate of ##\hat{O}##, there is no way to make a link with what can be observed in an experiment.
Ishika_96_sparkles said:
Since, the wave-function is given by \psi(r,t), then just as there is an operator of time evolution of the state, could we not have something that ``''spatially evolves'' the states across the state space? Like some spatial evolution of the states facilitated by an operator U(r_2,r_1) i.e. in some interval \Delta r. This is just an attempt to make an analogy with the time evolution operator. Here, the operator connects two states existing at two different points in state space.

My question is, as to whether this kind of operator is physically meaningful?

The rest of the mathematical relations given are just put in 1-to-1 correspondence with the derivations given in sec. 8-3 for the time evolution operator but with variable 't' replaced by the variable 'r'.
To make continuous transformations of the state, you can build unitary operators ##\hat{U}(s)## using the prescription
$$
\hat{U}(s) \equiv e^{i \hat{K} s}
$$
where ##\hat{K}## is a Hermitian operator, known as the generator of the transformation, and ##s## is some continuous parameter. In some cases, these transformations end up having a special significance. Taking the parameter as time ##t##, to construct the operator that takes the state from time ##t_1## to ##t_2##, it turns out that the generator is ##\hat{K} = - \hat{H} / \hbar##, i.e., the Hamiltonian is the generator of time translation, and recover the time evolution operator that you know.

What you are after is the generator of translation in space, which turns out to be
$$
\hat{K} = -\frac{\hat{\mathbf{p}}}{\hbar}
$$
such that the translation operator is
$$
\hat{T}(\Delta \mathbf{r}) \equiv \exp \left[- \frac{i \hat{\mathbf{p}} \cdot \Delta \mathbf{r}}{\hbar} \right],
$$
i.e.,
$$
\hat{T}(\Delta \mathbf{r}) \psi(\mathbf{r}) = \psi(\mathbf{r} + \Delta \mathbf{r})
$$
so momentum is the generator of translation in space.
 
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I had arrived at a similar conclusion that momentum will come into picture for such an operator.

Now i could see in
<br /> \hat{T}(\Delta \mathbf{r}) \equiv \exp \left[- \frac{i \hat{\mathbf{p}} \cdot \Delta \mathbf{r}}{\hbar} \right]<br />

\hat{\mathbf{p}} \rightarrow -\iota \hbar\frac{\partial }{\partial r} would give such a condition.
 
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