Filmmakers lost in the world of 3D animation and special effects

[ZQrn]

You already admitted to loving Titanic, which makes you a brave man secure in your heterosexuality, but calls into question your overall cinematic credentials. OK, that kidding put aside, was Titanic a terrible movie? No...

Was Avatar terrible... also no... I think both were terrible compared to the accolades they've recieved. Avatar in particular was practically a "port" of Dances With Wolves to 3D CGI... and UNOBTANIUM?!

Wise words here I guess.

Avatar and Titanic were as bad as any other film, as milked and already done as any other. I mean, Titanic was:

She's from a rich background but has grown bored with the elitist life, he's poor but vibrant, alive, he shows her how to have fun, meanwhile she's forced to marry a shallow rich guy against her will and in the end likes to be with the poor guy because he's so sincere and plain and has a zest for life. Now, we really haven't seen that idea before have we?

Avatar was basically Pocahontas in space. You see all coming miles ahead, it's really done so many times before, he has to spy on them, but grows respect or their ancient culture with their living in balance with nature and they marry in the end, no way.

Both films certainly didn't get so successful because of the plot, and the former was such a cheesy ode to melodrama, the later was just a fairy tale.

But in the end, success causes a slipstream, the original screenings of Star Wars, The Terminator, even Titanic were less-than-favourable, but once the hype is there reviewers will say what they're expected to say and it creates an even larger hype. They weren't extremely bad like Plan 9 or the Holiday Special, they were as good and trite as most films and had a larger budget.

 

[Tobias Funke]

the original screenings of Star Wars, The Terminator, even Titanic were less-than-favourable, but once the hype is there reviewers will say what they're expected to say and it creates an even larger hype.

This is true (although Terminator is awesome, much better than T2). The original Star Wars movies are only marginally better than the prequels. Awful writing, cliche story, plot holes galore. They're just older so they enjoy the nostalgia factor (and they sold lots of toys).

As far as the OP's opinion that movies have been getting worse since 1997, I just watched the original House on Haunted Hill. I know it didn't get critical acclaim, but it's so much worse than Avatar it's laughable. It's comforting to know that bad movies have always been around. I do agree that the hype surrounding movies is getting ridiculous but it's the same throughout our whole culture. Not to get too off topic, but look at the recent LeBron James ordeal. He's maybe the 3rd best player in the league but hype can be manufactured by brute force I guess.

 

[Pythagorean]

I know this is totally cliche, but movies like Casablanca and Key Largo are pretty much the height of good cinema if you ignore special fx.

 

[nismaratwork]

I have long claimed they should just call it what it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin" .

Ha! Now that might have gotten me to like the movie on princple if nothing else.

Pythagorean: There are a bunch, such as the original Producers, Some Like It Hot and dozens of others... your point that they are mostly in the distant past is well taken however.

ZQrn: Thanks :)


For the rest, Fern Gully, I remember that... I liked Princess Mononoke a lot more. Anyway, the feel of Avatar really can be captured by Mgb's "Dances With Smurfs". Oh the smurfs... I kept waiting for Gargamel to win even as a child.

 

[Pattonias]

Gargamel did win in the directors cut of the last episode. He ate the smerfs after turning them into gold and died of indigestion while stroking his cat. Very sad.

 

[ZQrn]

This is true (although Terminator is awesome, much better than T2). The original Star Wars movies are only marginally better than the prequels. Awful writing, cliche story, plot holes galore. They're just older so they enjoy the nostalgia factor (and they sold lots of toys).

Pretty much, Star Wars is what it is, a children's fairy tale, IN SPACE. The acting is also beyond bad, especially Mark Hammil, and people complain about Christensen... 'NO, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE!'

I don't like T1, neither T2, and neither T3, I don't like T4 either but at least it dared to be different.

I mean, all first three Terminator films recycle the same basic idea. Indestructible robot from the future comes to kill you, some hero comes after it to help you, the robot is physically superior to your aide, but at the end some deus ex machina like a helicopter crashing into her or the robot randomly falling into molten steel severely cripples it. Also, your aid always sacrifices himself at the end.

As far as the OP's opinion that movies have been getting worse since 1997, I just watched the original House on Haunted Hill. I know it didn't get critical acclaim, but it's so much worse than Avatar it's laughable. It's comforting to know that bad movies have always been around. I do agree that the hype surrounding movies is getting ridiculous but it's the same throughout our whole culture. Not to get too off topic, but look at the recent LeBron James ordeal. He's maybe the 3rd best player in the league but hype can be manufactured by brute force I guess.

Most of my favourite films were post-1997 and definitely original things. I'm talking about Donnie Darko, Primer, Cube, those kind of films. They get their appeal from their originality, creative plot and excellent character drama, not from their cosmologically large budget.

 

[Pattonias]

I watched Ink last night. It was really good, I would def recommend it. It was on Netflix instant view. Netflix instant view is one of the greatest things ever.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1071804/"

 

[jackson6612]

Thank you, everyone, for your informative comments, thoughts. I have learned about many new things here: MacGuffin, Unobtainium, etc, and of course some good recommendations on movies for future viewing.

I have just watched The Man Who Would be King for the sixth time. If you haven't watched it yet, then I assure you, you have been missing a grand cinematic experience! They don't make movies of this kind anymore!

Best wishes
Jack

 

[Leptos]

Old people complaining about the new world and ranting about how good the "good old days" were. Ah yes, good old technicolor and 20 MHz computers that cost millions of dollars.

 

[DaveC426913]

Pretty much, Star Wars is what it is, a children's fairy tale, IN SPACE. The acting is also beyond bad, especially Mark Hammil, and people complain about Christensen... 'NO, THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE!'

All completely true. And it all makes me warm & fuzzy in my tummy.

I mean, all first three Terminator films recycle the same basic idea.

You say that like it's a criticism. What other purpose does a sequel have than to provide a second round of what you enjoyed the first time? I guess you only watched one James Bond film? Or the first Toy Story? Or the first ALien film?

Most of my favourite films were post-1997 and definitely original things. I'm talking about Donnie Darko, Primer, Cube, those kind of films. They get their appeal from their originality, creative plot and excellent character drama, not from their cosmologically large budget.

Yes but, alas, they have a correspondingly small box office take.

I have just watched The Man Who Would be King for the sixth time. If you haven't watched it yet, then I assure you, you have been missing a grand cinematic experience! They don't make movies of this kind anymore!

Awesome film. Only saw it once. Coloured my thoughts forever.

Old people complaining about the new world and ranting about how good the "good old days" were. Ah yes, good old technicolor and 20 MHz computers that cost millions of dollars.

Uh. This sentence no verb.

Not sure of your point. Are you criticizing someone? Or commenting on a film story?

 

[DanP]

Technology evolves. Film making evolves with it. You will always find humans with a great deal of inertia who will bash anything which doesn't fit their "elitist" standards. Holier than you, they say :P

When you cut the line, the biggest social value of film making industry is the fact they bring entertainment to the masses, and ppl love it. Masses are happier after a movie, after a football game, they forget the about stresses of life for some brief moments. And this is the true value of a movie. More humans does it make happy, better the movie is. For the simple reason that it delivered to large masses of humans. Not to mention it also delivered nice profits to the studio.

Humans love flashy 3D movies, cartons, good looking actors, and movies which makes them happy. So I say, stay home if you don't like it :P We, the rest, don't care

I seen similar trends in literature. For example, many self-righteous humans call Tolkien's Ring series "cheap escapism" and look upon it with contempt. Well, you can like or dislike his work, but that's just a honest reader evaluation. There is no need for the contempt and looking down on his work. It's kinda ironic, but literature of any kind (save technical works and reporting articles) is "escapism". They are just made up stories.

 

[ZQrn]

You say that like it's a criticism. What other purpose does a sequel have than to provide a second round of what you enjoyed the first time? I guess you only watched one James Bond film? Or the first Toy Story? Or the first ALien film?

All Alien films had a rather different plot, same with Toy Story.

James Bond Recycles so much it hurts my stomach. But then again, I'm of all those only some what a fan of Alien and Alien³. Aliens I never liked, too much action, too little plot.

I like a plot I can't predict, I like a little sense of mystery, I like realistic and multidimensional characters. With so many films I would be willing to bet my grandmother on the ending after 20 minutes into it... You just know in Avatar that there is going to be a marriage, and that he's going to develop some form of respect for their ancient culture.

Yes but, alas, they have a correspondingly small box office take.

Elitism makes my world go round.

Though, 500 000 for a 7 000 USD budget is not too shabby if you look at it proportionally. That's two orders of magnitude.

But let's face it, 7/9 of the money a flick is going to make has nothing to do with the flick but rather its advertisement campaign in the end.

Uh. This sentence no verb.

Not sure of your point. Are you criticizing someone? Or commenting on a film story?

A sentence doesn't need a verb properly, it needs a predicate, of which a verb is only one case.

In this case we are dealing with an situational ablative (or should I say oblique), the predicate is 'old people complaining about the new world and ranting about how good the "good old days" were.', which is properly one noun phrase in the ablative (oblique) case.

 

[Pattonias]

They should have broken the up the mix and had a James Bond movie where he collected the heads of aliens and sent them back into space before something bad that was never really defines kills all of us. They also should put him in a lead lined refrigerator and blow up a nuke. James Bond and the blankity blankity make some money blank.

 

[nismaratwork]

Gargamel did win in the directors cut of the last episode. He ate the smerfs after turning them into gold and died of indigestion while stroking his cat. Very sad.

Ohh... that's just how I want to go!

 

[elfboy]

Titanic was a great movie - the special effects & even the sappy story. I saw it twice when it came out, mainly because I had a fascination about the Titanic and boats in general.

 

[mgb_phys]

Titanic was a great movie - ...mainly because I had a fascination about the Titanic and boats in general.

Rather like being a fan of Ishtar because you like the desert

 

[ZQrn]

Rather like being a fan of Ishtar because you like the desert

Ahaha.

Well, the film Titanic was hardly about the boat, it was a love story.

What's also interesting is that apparently there can be no sources found of people at any placing calling the ship 'unsinkable' before it sank. Calling a ship unsinkable only after it sank, wow.

 

[DaveC426913]

Rather like being a fan of Ishtar because you like the desert

Some stories really are more about the venue than the characters, yes.

Alice in Wonderland comes to mind. So does Oz.

Ahaha.

Well, the film Titanic was hardly about the boat, it was a love story.

Many would disagree, including me. It was an epic story about the Titanic, and Titanic was the main character, but it had a love story thrown in.

 

[ZQrn]

Some stories really are more about the venue than the characters, yes.

Alice in Wonderland comes to mind. So does Oz.

The venue there was a creative work in its own right, not picking a location. Oz and Wonderland were designed locations, just like Middle Earth. Apparently Middle Earth, its history and the languages are older than the books set in it.

Also, they were all children's stories of course, as is Star Wars in the end, which is also about the setting a lot, which was designed, he invented a galaxy with some extra principles.

Many would disagree, including me. It was an epic story about the Titanic, and Titanic was the main character, but it had a love story thrown in.

You sure? I never really heard this.

 

[nismaratwork]

The venue there was a creative work in its own right, not picking a location. Oz and Wonderland were designed locations, just like Middle Earth. Apparently Middle Earth, its history and the languages are older than the books set in it.

Also, they were all children's stories of course, as is Star Wars in the end, which is also about the setting a lot, which was designed, he invented a galaxy with some extra principles.

You sure? I never really heard this.

I'm with DaveC on this; the depiction of the various classes in the ship and every other element of the ship and journey was most prominent, even if the love story is what people took away from it at the end. One thing I did enjoy was the accurate depiction of steerage, 1st class and so forth... very well done. I also enjoyed the accuracy of the sinking according to Dr. Ballard's well respected views. I don't think that made it a good movie, but it was TITANIC, not "DiCaprio and Winslet get it on".

 

[jackson6612]

Old people complaining about the new world and ranting about how good the "good old days" were. Ah yes, good old technicolor and 20 MHz computers that cost millions of dollars.

Leptos, I think I'm not that old, I'm about 20+. Perhaps, I'm but who cares.

When Titanic came out I was a kid. I still fell in love so much terribly. Well, it was a kind of platonic one! It was Kate, my first Hollywood love.

Ishtar reminds me of some other good desert movies. I have always enjoyed movies filmed in Morocco, desert, or wilderness, in general. Hideous Kinky, Sahara (1943), The Sheltering Sky...

 

[ZQrn]

I'm with DaveC on this; the depiction of the various classes in the ship and every other element of the ship and journey was most prominent even if the love story is what people took away from it at the end. One thing I did enjoy was the accurate depiction of steerage, 1st class and so forth... very well done. I also enjoyed the accuracy of the sinking according to Dr. Ballard's well respected views. I don't think that made it a good movie, but it was TITANIC, not "DiCaprio and Winslet get it on".

Historically accurate?

http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/titanic-1997-film-/historical-inaccuracies.html

This source dares to disagree.

 

[DaveC426913]

Historically accurate?

http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/titanic-1997-film-/historical-inaccuracies.html

This source dares to disagree.

I would not call those historical inaccuracies; I would call those barely more than nitpicks.

I think they addressed the issue of discouraging the mixing of classes pretty well. It was pretty clear that segregation was enforced. Of course, the main character managed to circumvent it.

 

[nismaratwork]

Historically accurate?

http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/titanic-1997-film-/historical-inaccuracies.html

This source dares to disagree.

DaveC beat me to it, but I wasn't claiming that it was a documentary, and even then what you've cited don't amount to much. I stand by my earlier statement, although I'll admit the "I want to draw you nude" line is probably neither accurate, nor advisable. :)

 

[Pattonias]

I seem to remember a lot of the attention given to the film was in relation to the way the ship sank. They had recently confirmed several theories as to how the ship took on water and broke up, and they attempted to portray this accurately in the film.

It is ammusing to me that a movie that was ahead of its time with the use of CGI effects looks almost animated by todays CGI standards. I wonder how long before someone decides to "digitally enhance" this movie and re-releases it. They could totally change the look of the film without doing any new shooting. It seemed like half the movie was screaming "this is a big damned boat, and we didn't even build a model in a bathtub!"

 

[nismaratwork]

I seem to remember a lot of the attention given to the film was in relation to the way the ship sank. They had recently confirmed several theories as to how the ship took on water and broke up, and they attempted to portray this accurately in the film.

It is ammusing to me that a movie that was ahead of its time with the use of CGI effects looks almost animated by todays CGI standards. I wonder how long before someone decides to "digitally enhance" this movie and re-releases it. They could totally change the look of the film without doing any new shooting. It seemed like half the movie was screaming "this is a big damned boat, and we didn't even build a model in a bathtub!"

I would bet they wait for an anniversary of the film's release, and they will make a FORTUNE.

 

[DaveC426913]

It seemed like half the movie was screaming "this is a big damned boat, and we didn't even build a model in a bathtub!"

Except that they did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1997_film)#Effects

There was
- a 45-foot miniature of the whole ship,
- a 65-foot mini of the stern, and finally
- 744-foot long model of the port exterior (at 87% of the full-sized ship, it can't really be called a miniature ).

...and the bathtub held 5 million gallons.

 

[mgb_phys]

I would bet they wait for an anniversary of the film's release, and they will make a FORTUNE.

In the re-release presumably the iceberg will shoot second

 

[DaveC426913]

In the re-release presumably the iceberg will shoot second