Find Function R(z) for Coin Rolling in Funnel

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a coin rolling in a funnel with a constant horizontal speed while maintaining its altitude. The objective is to find a function R(z) that describes the funnel's shape, considering the dynamics of the coin's motion, including both translational and rotational aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between the coin's speed and the funnel's shape, questioning how the speed varies across different parts of the coin. There is mention of the need to express the function in terms of altitude (z) rather than radius (r). Some participants explore the implications of friction on the motion and the complexities introduced by the gyroscopic behavior of the coin.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants offering insights into the dynamics of rolling motion and raising questions about the assumptions made in the problem. Some guidance has been provided regarding the relationship between the coin's motion and the funnel's geometry, but no consensus has been reached on the exact form of the function R(z).

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may involve complexities related to gyroscopic motion and precession, which could affect the behavior of the coin in a real-world scenario. There are also indications that the problem may be perceived as challenging, with suggestions to consider its placement in a more advanced physics context.

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Homework Statement


A coin(radius=r) rolls in a funnel only with a horizontal speed v. The coin always stays at his altitude.
The coin has a homogen mass distribution and it only rolls! So it has a translational motion and a rotation motion.
Find a function R(z) whitch discribes the form of the funnel!
R>>r and z is the altitude of the funnel. the z-coordinate of the coin is changeless.

Homework Equations



I thougth it must be \tan\alpha=\frac{v^2}{r\cdot g}

But then i tought the speed at all parts of the coin isn't the same.

If there are any questions in understand my problem, ask!
I made a drawing of that:
attachment.php?attachmentid=29220&stc=1&d=1287583375.jpg


Can u pls help me?
Thank you
 

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But then i tought the speed at all parts of the coin isn't the same.

Every wheel that rolls on a surface behaves like that and its velocity is the velocity of the center.
Your equation is ok, but the problem asks to have it as a function of z, not of the radious (r).

But anyway I think in a real world experiment, it will not work, can you see why ? (tell your professor!)
 
If there is no friction, it could work.

Because the speed is not constant the F_z also is not constant. So it would be more difficult.

Or other question:
What is the difference between a pointmass and a coin rolling like this?

When a point rolls like this it is quite easy to get R(z) or Z(r) cause they are inverse functions.
 
is it too difficult?
Should i put in advanced physics?
 
jaykay99 said:
If there is no friction, it could work.

Because the speed is not constant the F_z also is not constant. So it would be more difficult.

Or other question:
What is the difference between a pointmass and a coin rolling like this?

When a point rolls like this it is quite easy to get R(z) or Z(r) cause they are inverse functions.


No, it's not a problem of friction.
If you think the coin as a flat cylinder, the axis of the cylinder will have to rotate in order to form always the same angle with the surface of the funnell.

The coin rolls about his axis, but the axis must make a precession like movement (as if it was a spinning top).
It will behave like a gyroscope.
If the precession velocity of the gyroscope is not the same of the angular velocity of the coin around the funnell, then the coin will finally fall or follow an erratic path.

For your problem you are ok, the answer you gave is correct, I think that the gyrscope behaviour is advanced for your class.
In real world that coin would make an erratic path.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your answer.
I found a nice vid on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfyng8f-bOA&feature=related

What form must the funnel have?
Is it really to complicated to calculate with the gyrscope behaviour?
 
Last edited:

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