Find Max Potential Energy per Unit Length of Wire

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving a vibrating wire fixed at both ends, specifically focusing on determining the position along the wire where the potential energy per unit length reaches its maximum value. The problem incorporates concepts from mechanics and wave motion, including tension, mass, and amplitude.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the potential energy per unit length and the position along the wire, questioning the conditions under which this energy is maximized. There is a discussion about the critical points derived from the derivative of potential energy and the implications of these points.

Discussion Status

Some participants express confusion regarding the results from their calculations compared to the textbook's assertion about the maximum potential energy occurring at the midpoint of the wire. There is an ongoing exploration of the factors influencing potential energy and the significance of the derivative dy/dx in this context. Participants are also examining the reasoning behind different interpretations of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note discrepancies between their findings and textbook solutions, leading to questions about the assumptions made in the problem setup. There is mention of external resources that may not align with the current discussion, indicating a search for clarity on the topic.

LoadedAnvils
Messages
36
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



A wire is fixed at both ends vibrating fundamentally. For what value of x (x position on the wire, with 0 being one edge and L being the other) is the potential energy per unit length has the maximum value?

Known: Length of wire (L), Tension in wire (T), Mass of wire (m), Amplitude (A).

Homework Equations



y(x,t) = A sin(kx) cos(wt)

dU/dx ~= T (dy/dx)^2 /2
(dy/dx is a partial derivative)

The Attempt at a Solution



dy/dx = Ak cos(kx) cos(wt)

dU/dx = T (Ak)^2 cos(wt)^2 cos(kx)^2

d/dx(dU/dx) = -T (Ak)^2 cos(wt)^2 2k cos(kx) sin(kx)
d/dx(dU/dx) = -T (Ak)^2 cos(wt)^2 k sin(2kx)

Critical points exist at d/dx(dU/dx) = 0, so since everything else is a constant, sin(2kx) = 0, and thus 2kx = 0 (x = 0), 2kx = pi (x = L/2), and 2kx = 2pi (x = L) are all solutions.

dU/dx = 0 at x = L/2, but when cos(wt)^2 > 0 then dU/dx is greater at x = 0, L than at x = L/2

The textbook says that the maximum potential energy per unit length occurs at the middle of the wire. My math says that it's at the two endpoints? Why?

Also, I googled the problem and they are taking dy/dx at 0 to get the result. I don't understand this. Can anyone explain?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org


LoadedAnvils said:
The textbook says that the maximum potential energy per unit length occurs at the middle of the wire. My math says that it's at the two endpoints? Why?
What does the potential energy per unit length depend on? Where would these things be maximum?
Also, I googled the problem and they are taking dy/dx at 0 to get the result.
Who is "they"?
 


The potential energy per unit length depends on the partial derivative dy/dx (at least as an approximation) and the tension (which is constant).

Where would these things be maximum?

The partial dy/dx seems to be maximum at x = 0.

Who is "they"?

I looked here on page 78. This "solution" is what I don't understand. (I had worked out this problem without checking the solution to it first).

http://www.uccs.edu/~rtirado/Ch16%20ISM.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:


well ... I see you are stuck on thinking in terms of equations.
Have a look at a string that is vibrating like that and use physics.

Each length-element of the string is in constant motion, up and down.
So each mass element on the string is constantly exchanging kinetic and potential energy. When y is a maximum, the string between x and x+dx has maximum potential energy for that bit, when y=0, then the kinetic energy is a maximum. From this, without reference to any equations, what value of x would you expect to find the bit of the string that gets the most potential energy?

Note:
The reference in the link does not have a page 78 ... I found page 1678, but if any of the examples there used dy/dx I did not see it. There is a problem 78 too - but also not apropos. Some of the problems used dU/dx etc though but I stopped hunting.

The books pattern of getting you to "picture the problem" first is a good one for this problem too.
 

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
55
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K