Find Resources for Modeling Generic CEV Re-Entry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling a generic Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) re-entry, focusing on the necessary mass properties such as drag coefficients, mass, inertias, and initial velocity. Participants explore the challenges associated with accurately simulating re-entry dynamics, particularly in hypersonic conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the difficulty of modeling CEV re-entry, sharing past experiences with FEM programs that struggled with hypersonic flows.
  • Another participant mentions the significance of atmospheric drag starting around 50 km altitude and suggests a re-entry angle of 2 to 4 degrees from circular.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about obtaining accurate data for numerical computations, suggesting simplifications might be necessary for large-scale kinematics.
  • One contributor shares their experience with a numerical simulation of CEV re-entry, indicating unrealistic parameters used in their model.
  • Shaun clarifies the need for a simpler model of a CEV falling straight down, seeking physical characteristics like weight and surface area, and mentions having a basic model in place.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the feasibility of accurately modeling CEV re-entry. There are multiple competing views regarding the complexity of the task and the availability of reliable data.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to computational resources and the realism of simulations, noting that high Reynolds numbers at certain altitudes complicate accurate modeling.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals involved in aerospace engineering, computational fluid dynamics, or those seeking to understand the complexities of re-entry vehicle dynamics.

schemp98
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Hello,

I need to model a generic CEV re-entry, and was wondering if anyone could guide me towards a resource for mass properties (drag coefficients, mass, inertias, initial velocity, etc). Thank You

Shaun
 
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Ugh. I hate to say it, but that is not a trivial thing to do.

I was doing a design project my senior year, and we 'broke' two different FEM programs trying to model it (fluent and femlab). Neither were designed to handle hypersonic flows. We ended up waving our hands and saying "we're going to assume that it works" based on the expertise of our advisor and shapes of the Apollo and Gemini reentry vehicles.

It was a long time ago, so I'm going from memory with this info:

You start getting significant atmospheric drag around 50km. We were told that you'd want to have a reentry angle of between 2 and 4 degrees from circular. One of the guys in my team did the orbital dynamics to determine what sort of burn we needed using a one sided hohmann transfer and calculated our entry velocity at that point. We pulled atmospheric densities off of a NASA site and curvefitted it. We were originally going to try to do an ODE simulation using MATLAB before we gave up to focus on other sections of the design (only so much you can do for a one semester course with a 8-person team).
 
schemp98 said:
Hello,
I need to model a generic CEV re-entry, and was wondering if anyone could guide me towards a resource for mass properties (drag coefficients, mass, inertias, initial velocity, etc). Thank You
Shaun


I would say it is pretty impossible to obtain accurate data if you want to compute it numerically. Ok, maybe you are able to simplify the reentry and watch your CEV as a point falling on Earth if the only thing in which you are interested is on the large scale kinematics of the vehicle. A numeric flow simulation is out of scope if you are not using a supercomputer. Take into account that the Reynolds# as such altitudes may be of the order of 10 millions. Personally, I made a numerical simulation of the reentry flow of a CEV sometime ago (Enigma knows about my simulation), with M=4.52 and Re=1250, which is pretty unrealistic.
 
Thanks for your replies, I think I should have elaborated on my situation...

Right now, I just need to create a simple model of a CEV falling straight down (with some neglible horizontal velocity)

I already have a 'skeleton' of a model up and running. Basically, I just need to find physical characteristics such as weight, surface area w/ and w/o parachutes open, and forces of the thruster (approximations are fine).

Any ideas on where I could easily find this stuff? Thanks

Shaun
 

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