Find the curve with the shortest path on a surface (geodesic)

In summary: Backtracking this parametrisation should give you the correct solution.In summary, the problem involves finding the shortest path on a given plane between two points, using the Euler-Lagrange equation. The solution involves finding the functional for the shortest path, using the Euler-Lagrange equation, and solving for the constants using the initial conditions. However, there is a discrepancy when comparing this solution to the definition of a geodesic, which states that the curve must have no acceleration along itself. Upon further analysis, it is determined that the curve is indeed a geodesic, but is not affinely parametrised. It is possible to find an affine parametrisation by introducing a new coordinate and backtracking the solution to find
  • #1
Westlife
4
2

Homework Statement


Let ##U## be a plane given by ##\frac{x^2}{2}-z=0##
Find the curve with the shortest path on ##U## between the points ##A(-1,0,\frac{1}{2})## and ##B(1,1,\frac{1}{2})##
I have a question regarding the answer we got in class.

Homework Equations


Euler-Lagrange
##L(y)=\int L(x,y,y')dx## has extremes when ##L_y-\frac{d}{dx}L_{y'}=0##

The Attempt at a Solution


So how what we did in class was.
Let ##\gamma (x)=(x,y(x),\frac{x^2}{2})## then the shortest path is going to be the minimum of the functional
$$I(\gamma)=\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1}\sqrt{dx^2+dy^2+dz^2}=\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1}\sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}dx$$
Now using the Euler-Lagrange equation for the extremes of a functional we get that:
##L_y=0##
##L_{y'}=\frac{y'}{\sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}##

Therefore we are going to have extremes when

##\frac{d}{dx}\frac{y'}{\sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=0## which means that ##\frac{y'}{\sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=C##

Now solving this DE we get
##y'=D\sqrt{x^2+1}\implies y=\frac{D}{2}( (\sqrt{x^2 + 1} x + \sinh^{-1}(x)) +E##

Which would mean that the shortes path on the curve would be

##\gamma(x)=(x,y(x),\frac{x^2}{2})## where we could get ##E,D## from the initial conditions ##y(-1)=0,y(1)=1##

All seems good. However last week in another class we said the a curve ##\gamma\,\text{is a geodesic}\iff \gamma ''|| N##. Where ##N## is the normal of the surface ##U##

I decided to check if this holds for the curve we got and got
##N=\nabla( \frac{x^2}{2}-z)=(x,0,-1)##
##\gamma ''(x)=(0, \frac{(D x)}{sqrt(x^2 + 1)}, 1)##

And here we see that ##N\nparallel \gamma '' ##. Can anyone explain me why this is the case? does that mean that the shortest path is not a geodesic?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Hiero
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Westlife said:
However last week in another class we said the a curve ##\gamma\,\text{is a geodesic}\iff \gamma ''|| N##. Where ##N## is the normal of the surface ##U##
I think you’re leaving out a key detail... this applies only to parametrizations with constant speed. (A straight line parametrized with variable speed accelerates along itself, but it’s still a straight line!)

I’m by no stretch an expert in this material, but everything else you did makes sense to me.
 
  • #3
Re-parameterizing γ to have a constant speed seems like a daunting task... I think we can take an alternative approach.

The idea of having constant speed is that there is no component of acceleration along the geodesic path. So we ought to be able to say (I’m making this up so someone please confirm) that [γ is a geodesic] ⇔ [γ’’ is in the span of N (surface normal) and γ’] where we no longer require |γ’| to be constant.
(@Orodruin do you agree?)

So instead of re-parametrizing γ we can just ask: are there coefficients a and b such that ##γ’’ = aγ’ + bN## ?
If I’m not mistaken, this question is equivalent to “is the curve a geodesic?” but without the constraint of constant speed.
(Again, someone please confirm or deny me.)

Now, from your work:

##γ’’= (0, \frac{Dx}{\sqrt{1+x^2}}, 1)##
##γ’= (1, D\sqrt{1+x^2}, x)##
##N = (x, 0, -1)##

A bit of inspection/algebra reveals that we can indeed solve the equation ##γ’’ = aγ’ + bN## if we choose ##a = \frac{x}{1+x^2}## and ##b = \frac{-1}{1+x^2}##

So I believe all is well and γ is indeed a geodesic!

(Thanks for your question, I’ve learned from it.)
 
  • #4
Hiero said:
The idea of having constant speed is that there is no component of acceleration along the geodesic path. So we ought to be able to say (I’m making this up so someone please confirm) that [γ is a geodesic] ⇔ [γ’’ is in the span of N (surface normal) and γ’] where we no longer require |γ’| to be constant.
(@Orodruin do you agree?)
Yes. A geodesic with constant speed is called an affinely parametrised geodesic. You can find the differential equations describing it by using that curve parameter as the parameter instead of ##x##. It is relatively easy to show that the geodesic equations with the additional condition of being affinely parametrised are equivalent to the EL equations you would get from extremising the same (reparametrised) functional as here but without the square root.

In this particular problem, it should not be too difficult to find an affinely parametrised geodesic as z only depends on x. You can therefore introduce a new coordinate ##u## such that ##ds^2 = du^2 + dy^2##. This is a regular 2D Euclidean space and the geodesic is a straight line, which is easy to give an affine parametrisation.
 
  • Like
Likes Hiero

1. What is a geodesic?

A geodesic is the shortest path between two points on a curved surface, similar to a straight line on a flat surface. It is often described as the "straightest" path in curved space or the path of minimal distance.

2. How is the shortest path on a surface determined?

The shortest path on a surface is determined by calculating the geodesic, which involves finding the path with the minimum length. This can be done using various mathematical techniques, such as calculus or differential geometry.

3. What factors determine the length of a geodesic?

The length of a geodesic is determined by the curvature of the surface and the two points between which the path is being calculated. Generally, the greater the curvature of the surface, the longer the geodesic will be.

4. Are there different types of geodesics?

Yes, there are different types of geodesics depending on the type of surface being considered. For example, on a sphere, there are two types of geodesics - great circles and small circles. Great circles are the shortest path between two points on a sphere, while small circles are the shortest path between two points on a cone or cylinder.

5. How is the concept of geodesics used in real life?

Geodesics have many practical applications in fields such as mathematics, physics, and engineering. For example, they are used in navigation systems to determine the shortest route between two points on a curved surface. They are also used in architecture and design to create efficient and aesthetically pleasing structures.

Similar threads

  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
10
Views
292
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
13
Views
246
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
6
Views
836
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
679
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
18
Views
1K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
611
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
753
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
529
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
6
Views
745
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
14
Views
191
Back
Top