Finding Approximation for X in m^2 $\gg$ $\mu^2$

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding an approximation for a complex expression involving variables \(m\), \(\mu\), and \(m_N\) under the condition that \(m^2 \gg \mu^2\). The original poster seeks guidance on how to approach the problem without arriving at a trivial solution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to expand logarithmic terms and consider the implications of approximating \(m^2 \pm \mu^2\) as \(m^2\). There are suggestions to express terms in a specific form and to expand logarithms around small parameters. Some participants question the validity of ignoring certain terms in the expansion.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the mathematical expressions, with participants providing guidance on how to simplify and collect terms. While some participants express confidence in their approaches, there is no explicit consensus on a final form or solution yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that certain higher-order terms can be ignored under specific conditions, and there are discussions about the implications of the approximation \(m^2 \gg \mu^2\) on the overall expression.

ryanwilk
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Homework Statement



I need to find the approximation to:

X = m_N\>\bigg[\frac{m^2+\mu^2}{m_N^2 - (m^2+\mu^2)}\>\mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2+\mu^2} \bigg) - \frac{m^2-\mu^2}{m_N^2 - (m^2-\mu^2)}\>\mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2-\mu^2} \bigg) \bigg]

for m^2 \gg \mu^2.


Homework Equations



N/A

The Attempt at a Solution



So obviously I can't just do m^2 \pm \mu^2 \approx m^2, otherwise X = 0, which makes me think that I need to expand the logs in some way...

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks.
 
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Write the terms m22 in the form m2(1+x) with x=(μ/m)2. Expand the logarithm ln(1+x) with respect to x around x=0. The first power is enough: ln (1+x)=x. Ignore terms containing Edit: μ4 on higher powers.

ehild
 
Last edited:
Ah ok thanks, so would this be correct?:

<br /> X = m_N\&gt;\bigg[\frac{m^2(1+x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1+x)}\&gt;\mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2(1+x)} \bigg) - \frac{m^2(1-x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1-x)}\&gt;\mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2(1-x)} \bigg) \bigg]<br />

Expanding the logs,

<br /> \simeq m_N\&gt;\bigg[\frac{m^2(1+x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1+x)}\&gt;\bigg[ \mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2}\bigg) - x \bigg] - \frac{m^2(1-x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1-x)}\&gt; \bigg[ \mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2} \bigg) + x \bigg] \bigg]<br />

Then ignoring all terms involving x or x2 on the numerator,

<br /> \simeq m_N\&gt;m^2\&gt;\mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2}\bigg)\&gt; \bigg[\frac{1}{m_N^2 - (m^2+\mu^2)} - \frac{1}{m_N^2 - (m^2 - \mu^2)} \bigg]<br />
 
Oops... Do not ignore x . Collect the terms with the common factor ln(mN/m) and those with the common factor x. Bring the terms to common denominator and try to simplify. Ignore the x^2 terms.
ehild
 
ehild said:
Oops... Do not ignore x . Collect the terms with the common factor ln(mN/m) and those with the common factor x. Bring the terms to common denominator and try to simplify. Ignore the x^2 terms.
ehild

Ok, so something like?:

<br /> m_{\nu_L} = m_N\&gt;\bigg[\frac{m^2(1+x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1+x)}\&gt;\mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2(1+x)} \bigg) - \frac{m^2(1-x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1-x)}\&gt;\mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2(1-x)} \bigg) \bigg]<br />

<br /> \simeq m_N\&gt;\bigg[\frac{m^2(1+x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1+x)}\&gt;\bigg[ \mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2}\bigg) - x \bigg] - \frac{m^2(1-x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1-x)}\&gt; \bigg[ \mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2} \bigg) + x \bigg] \bigg] <br />

<br /> \simeq m_N\&gt;\bigg\{ \mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2}\bigg) \&gt; \bigg[\frac{m^2(1+x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1+x)} - \frac{m^2(1-x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1-x)} \bigg] - x \bigg[\frac{m^2(1+x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1+x)} + \frac{m^2(1-x)}{m_N^2 - m^2(1-x)} \bigg] \bigg\}<br />

<br /> \simeq m_N\&gt;\bigg\{ \mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2}\bigg) \&gt; \bigg[\frac{2 m^2 m_N^2 x}{(m_N^2 - m^2(1+x))(m_N^2 - m^2(1-x))} \bigg] - x \bigg[\frac{2m^2(m_N^2-m^2)}{(m_N^2 - m^2(1+x))(m_N^2 - m^2(1-x))} \bigg] \bigg\}<br />

<br /> = m_N\cdot 2m^2 x \bigg\{ m_N^2 \bigg[ \mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2}\bigg) - 1 \bigg] + m^2 \bigg\} \&gt; \bigg[\frac{1}{(m_N^2 - m^2(1+x))(m_N^2 - m^2(1-x))} \bigg]<br />

<br /> = 2 m_N \mu^2 \bigg\{ m_N^2 \bigg[ \mathrm{ln} \bigg(\frac{m_N^2}{m^2}\bigg) - 1 \bigg] + m^2 \bigg\} \&gt; \bigg[\frac{1}{(m_N^2 - (m^2+\mu^2))(m_N^2 - (m^2-\mu^2))} \bigg]<br />
 
It looks correct. You can further simplify the denominator. It is

(m_N^2-m^2)^2-\mu^4,

and you can omit μ4 if mN2-m2>>μ2.

ehild
 
ehild said:
It looks correct. You can further simplify the denominator. It is

(m_N^2-m^2)^2-\mu^4,

and you can omit μ4 if mN2-m2>>μ2.

ehild

Awesome, thanks a lot! =D
 
ryanwilk said:
Awesome, thanks a lot! =D

You are welcome. Where did this terrible thing come from?

ehild
 

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