Finding Electric Potential Gradient in 3D FEM Mesh

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the electric potential gradient (∇∅) in a 3D finite element mesh to determine electric current density (i). Participants explore various methods and considerations related to finite element analysis (FEA) and the implications of using different mesh types.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) seeks assistance in calculating the gradient of electric potential at each node in a finite element mesh to derive current density.
  • One participant suggests using bilinear approximation for regular grids, providing a formula for the x-component of current density.
  • Another participant points out that the previous suggestion is more suitable for finite difference meshes rather than finite element meshes, emphasizing the need to use element shape functions to calculate gradients.
  • This participant notes that gradients averaged over the volume of each element are consistent with the finite element method, but different elements may yield varying gradient values at a node.
  • One participant acknowledges the oversimplification of assuming a rectangular grid and mentions the relationship between electric field and potential.
  • A participant agrees with the method proposed for structured meshes but prefers an alternative approach for unstructured meshes, highlighting the need for averaging methods to calculate nodal values of ∇∅.
  • Another participant reiterates that ∇∅ is an elemental solution and discusses the discontinuities across element boundaries, suggesting that the necessity of addressing these discontinuities depends on the intended use of the solution.
  • This participant also mentions the possibility of formulating elements with nodal variable gradients, referencing practices in structural analysis without specific experience in electromagnetism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate methods for calculating gradients in finite element meshes, particularly between structured and unstructured meshes. There is no consensus on a single approach, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best practices for handling gradients and discontinuities.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions of mesh structure, the nature of the finite element method, and the implications of averaging methods for gradient calculations. The discussion reflects the complexity of applying finite element analysis to electromagnetic problems.

Stacky
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Hello,
The value of electric potential(∅) is known at every node in a 3d finite element mesh. The relation between electric current density(i) and electric potential(∅) is i=k.∇∅, I am writing a code in c, I want to know how to find the gradient of electric potential(∇∅) at every node so as to get current density(i). Please help.
 
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If we subscript the nodes using i,j,k then the bilinear approximation would be,

J_x = \frac{\sigma}{2 \Delta} \left[ V_{(i-1),j,k} - V_{(i+1),j,k} \right]

and similarly for the y and z components.
 
The OP said a finite element mesh. The previous answer looks more appropriate for a regular finite differnce mesh, not an FE mesh with arbitrary geometry.

You can calculate the gradient at each node of each element using the element shape functions. (This will be similar, but simpler, than calculating strains from displacements in a structural FE program).

The problem is that the only output that is consistent with the FE method is gradient averaged over the volume of each element. When several elements meet at a node, you will get a different gradient value at the node for each of the elements.

If you just want to plot the data you can do something fairly simple, for example average of the different nodal values (possibly weighted by the volume of the elements). Or you can use the difference between the element values at each node as a measure of the accuracy of the solution.

If you want to do some mathematical post processing using the gradients, it would be better to do it based on the value within the volume of each element, rather than some more or less arbitrary nodal averaging method.
 
Ok, it looks like I was over-simplifying it by assuming it was a rectangular grid.

BTW Stacky. The electric field is E = - \nabla \phi, so it should be J = - \sigma (\nabla \phi)
 
Method suggested by uart is correct, but it suits a regular structured rectangular mesh. Because I am dealing with unstructured mesh, I would prefer to use the method proposed by AlphaZero. Thanks both for their inputs.
Neverthless in strict sense ∇∅ is an elemental solution and we need to use some averaging method to calculate its value at nodes.
 
Stacky said:
Neverthless in strict sense ∇∅ is an elemental solution and we need to use some averaging method to calculate its value at nodes.

I would rephrase that as "the FE approximation for ∇∅ is discontinuous across the element boundaries". Whether you "need" to get rid of the discontinuities depends what you want to use the solution for.

If you really don't want discontinuities, you could formulate an element with a different variational principle so the gradients are nodal variables. That has been done for structural analysis (but few people actually use those element formulations). I don't have any hands-on experiemnce of FE methods in electromagnetism and I don't know what the state of the art is in that field.
 

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