Finding Force Given Potential Energy

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem related to finding force from potential energy in a physics context, specifically involving a potential function V(r; C6, C12) = C12/r12 - C6/r6. Participants express frustration with a lack of guidance from their professor as they prepare for an upcoming midterm exam.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between force and potential energy, specifically using the equation F(vector) = -∇V. They explore the implications of taking partial derivatives and simplifying expressions. Questions arise regarding the relationship between the variables and their representations in vector form.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided feedback on the correctness of attempts and suggested simplifications. There is an ongoing exploration of how to express the derived equations in terms of coordinates and unit vectors, with some participants still seeking clarity on certain notations and concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a practice exam question and express concern over the lack of provided solutions or examples from their professor. There is a noted confusion regarding notation and the application of concepts related to vectors and gradients.

CallMeShady
Messages
45
Reaction score
1
Now let me start off by saying that I, along with over 100 students in my class are having issues with this concept, thanks to our "amazing" professor, while our midterm exam is a few days away. I don't want to sound like I am complaining, but I am frustrated with the fact that the professor refuses to go over an example with us completely. The following is a practice exam question and for some reason, he refuses to provide answers to the questions (forget providing an answer key). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Homework Statement


V(r; C6, C12) = C12/r12 - C6/r6 with C12 = 1.0 and C6 = 2.0
2vdinf7.jpg



Homework Equations


None, all equations you need for the question are in the question itself.


The Attempt at a Solution


So I know that F(vector) = -∇V, where F is the force and V is the potential energy. Basically this means that I need to take the partial derivative of V(r) and multiply that by r(vector)/r and so for part (a), I get: (12C12r-13-6C6r-7)(r(vector)/r)
Have I done this correct? And if so, how do I proceed to part (b)?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You are correct in part a, but you can simplify the answer a little.
What is the relation between r,r(vector) and x,y,z,x^,y^,z^?
 
frogjg2003 said:
You are correct in part a, but you can simplify the answer a little.
What is the relation between r,r(vector) and x,y,z,x^,y^,z^?

By simplifying the answer, do you mean just substitute the values of C6 and C12 with their respective values (given in the question)?

In addition, I know that r(vector)/r is just a normalized vector. In other words, it gives me the direction of the vector force. In addition, r = √x2+y2(+z2). However, I still do not know how to solve part (b). I can't seem to put my ideas together.
 
By simplify, I just meant multiply r^-13 and r^-12 by the 1/r you had grouped with r(vector).

Ok, you have r^2=x^2+y^2+z^2, what about r(vector)?
 
By multiplying the derived equation by 1/r, I get:
(12C12r-14-6C6r-8)(r(vector))

And since r = √x2+y2(+z2), I get:
(12C12(√x2+y2+z2)-14-6C6(√x2+y2+z2)-8)(r(vector))

Finally r(vector) gives me the exact location using the x,y,z co-ordinates. So, now, do I just substitute the values of x,y,z given by r(vector) into the equation above?
 
Last edited:
Yes
quick note: Sqrt(...)^-14 and Sqrt(...)^-8 simplify
 
Hm, by simplifying, do you mean that they become:
(x2+y2+z2)-7
&
(x2+y2+z2)-4
?
 
Yes.
As for plugging in, remember that \vec{r}=x\hat{x}+y\hat{y}+z\hat{z}
 
I am not sure what you mean with that equation above... what does the hat above the variables mean?

After substituting the numbers, I got r = √35 and plugging that into the original derived equation, I got an answer of -7.997 \times10-6 (which I am assuming is an answer in Newtons).
 
  • #10
\hat{x}, \hat{y}, \hat{z} are the unit vectors in the x,y, and z directions. If you haven't seen this notation yet, you are overdue. It's just a way of writing out a vector as a sum of terms instead of as a matrix, which has the benefit of being very useful for multi-variable calculus. I don't know how you're doing gradients without having seen unit vectors yet.
 

Similar threads

Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
Replies
9
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K