Finding Maxima/Minima of Polynomials without calculus?

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    Calculus Polynomials
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the maxima and minima of polynomials without using calculus or calculators, particularly in the context of teaching precalculus students. Participants explore methods for identifying these points based on polynomial forms and properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to teach a student to find maxima and minima of polynomials without calculus, noting the challenge posed by the educational context.
  • Another participant suggests that for parabolas, converting them to the vertex form f(x)=a(x-c)²+b simplifies finding maxima and minima.
  • A participant reiterates the method for parabolas and extends the discussion to higher-order polynomials, implying that similar forms may exist for those as well.
  • One participant acknowledges the specific polynomial form given and questions whether maxima or minima can be determined from it.
  • Another participant notes that while local maxima and minima can be found, some may be missed due to the nature of the polynomial's roots.
  • A participant points out that repeated roots indicate that the polynomial's derivative also has those roots, suggesting that students might need to analyze the signs of the polynomial's factors to determine maxima and minima.
  • It is mentioned that a squared factor indicates that the polynomial does not change sign at that root, which implies the presence of a maximum or minimum at that point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a singular method for finding maxima and minima without calculus. Multiple approaches and interpretations are presented, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the limitations of relying solely on algebraic manipulation and sign analysis without calculus, as well as the potential for missing local extrema due to the nature of polynomial roots.

PhotonSSBM
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I'm tutoring a student who is in a typical precalculus/trig course where they're teaching her about graphing various arbitrary polynomials. Among the rules of multiplicity and intercepts they seem to be phrasing the questions such that they expect the students to also find the maxima and minima of the polynomial as well. How do they expect their students to do this without calculus or the aid of a calculator? I was embarrassed sitting there with her mother not sure if I should teach the girl how to differentiate or not to answer the problem. But their the problem was, explicitly asking for the maxima of the function and saying no calculators allowed.

I'm stumped, is there anyone who knows what they're looking for?
 
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For parabolas, you can convert them to the form f(x)=a(x-c)2+b where it is easy to find the maximum/minimum.
Sometimes higher order polynomials have similar expressions that allow finding the maximum/minimum without a derivative.
 
mfb said:
For parabolas, you can convert them to the form f(x)=a(x-c)2+b where it is easy to find the maximum/minimum.
Sometimes higher order polynomials have similar expressions that allow finding the maximum/minimum without a derivative.
Ah, good. I gave her the quick one for parabolas. But what you just said is interesting.

The forms of the polynomials were this:

##(x+3)^3(x-2)^2(x+7)^2##

Would there be some way to find the maximum or minimum given this form already?
 
Yes, with the same idea as for the parabola. You only get local maxima and minima here and you'll miss half of them.
 
PhotonSSBM said:
The forms of the polynomials were this:

##(x+3)^3(x-2)^2(x+7)^2##

You can see from calculus that if a polynomial has a "repeated root" then that value is also a root of its derivative.

Perhaps the students are expected to reason about the signs of the factors. For example, the factor (x-2) changes signs "as x changes from less than 2 to greater than 2", but since that factor is squared, the polynomial doesn't change sign.
 
Stephen Tashi said:
but since that factor is squared, the polynomial doesn't change sign.
Which also means there is a maximum or minimum at that zero.
 

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