Finding Radius of Curvature of a Sphere Using Angle Excess

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of finding the radius of curvature of a sphere using the idea of angle excess. Participants explore the relationship between angle excess, sectional curvature, and the Riemann curvature tensor, while also considering pedagogical approaches to explain these concepts in simpler terms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the radius of curvature can be defined using the formula: angle excess / area = 1/ r_s^2, relating it to the sum of angles in a triangle on a sphere.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the existence of a layman-friendly treatment that connects angle excess to sectional curvature and the Riemann curvature tensor.
  • A third participant references Toponogov's theorem as a relevant concept linking geodesic triangles to constant sectional curvature.
  • One participant discusses the angular defect's relationship to the fraction enclosed on a sphere-like surface, noting that the total defect sums to 4π and that this holds for unevenly curved surfaces as well.
  • This same participant proposes a model relating the solid angle defect of the universe to its mass, suggesting a connection to extrinsic curvature and the MOND acceleration parameter, while emphasizing that this model pertains to spatial curvature rather than space-time curvature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the relationships between angle excess, curvature, and pedagogical approaches, with no consensus reached on the best way to explain these concepts or the implications of the angular defect model.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the calculations involving angular defect and effective radius are approximations, and the discussion includes assumptions about the relationship between spatial and time curvature in the context of Einstein's field equations.

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On the surface of a sphere, we can find the radius of cuvature of the sphere by:

angle excess / area = 1/ r_s^2

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Angle_excess&oldid=543583039

If we use triangles, for instance, the angle excess is the sum of the angles of the triangle minus 180 degrees.

Can we use this basic idea to define the sectional curvature of a plane in terms that are relatively layman-friendly, and leverage this up to a fuller explanation of the Riemann curvature tensor?

T seems to me it's that "angle excess" is the same basic idea as talking about the parallel transport of a vector around a closed path, but expressed in simpler language.
 
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That seems like a pedagogically good approach, but I don't know of a treatment which does it that way.
 
I've always been interested in the relationship of the angular defect (or angular deficit) to the fraction enclosed of a sphere-like surface, noting that by Descartes Theorem the total defect always adds up to 4pi on something similar to an ordinary sphere. For an unevenly curved surface, this remains exact, while the calculation of the effective radius of the spherical surface from the angular defect is just an approximation.

It seemed to me that the angular defect was like a conserved quantity, and therefore that it might be like the distribution of mass in the universe. However, in the 3D case, allocating the solid angle defect in this way gives additional extrinsic curvature proportional to sqrt(m)/r, not to m/r^2 as in Newtonian gravity.

Somewhat surprisingly, if you assume that the solid angle defect for the whole universe corresponds approximately to the estimated mass of the universe, of the order of 10^54 kg, then you find that the constant of proportionality for the extrinsic curvature in this model happens to be equal to the MOND acceleration parameter, and the corresponding acceleration matches the MOND law.

(Note however that this model relates to spatial curvature, not space-time curvature, and the acceleration would therefore only affect slow-moving objects if some additional assumptions were made, for example that the usual relationship of space to time curvature applies locally as in Einstein's field equations).
 

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