Finding second derivative of sin y+cos y=x in terms of x

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The discussion focuses on finding the second derivative of the equation sin y + cos y = x in terms of x. The first derivative is established as dy/dx = 1/(cos y - sin y). Participants suggest using the chain rule for simplification, leading to the second derivative expressed as d²y/dx² = - (cos y - sin y)⁻² (-sin y dy/dx - cos y dy/dx). Ultimately, it is recommended to express y as a function of x for easier differentiation, using the form c sin(x + θ) for simplification.

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sooyong94
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Homework Statement


Find the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x, giving your answer in terms of x.


Homework Equations


Implicit derivatives


The Attempt at a Solution


##\sin y+\cos y=x##
##\cos y \frac{dy}{dx} -\sin y \frac{dy}{dx}=1##
##\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{1}{\cos y-\sin y}##

Now, do I use the chain rule by rewriting them as ##(\cos y-\sin y)^{-1}##, or use the quotient rule instead?
 
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sooyong94 said:

Homework Statement


Find the second derivative of sin y+cos y=x, giving your answer in terms of x.


Homework Equations


Implicit derivatives


The Attempt at a Solution


##\sin y+\cos y=x##
##\cos y \frac{dy}{dx} -\sin y \frac{dy}{dx}=1##
##\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{1}{\cos y-\sin y}##

Now, do I use the chain rule by rewriting them as ##(\cos y-\sin y)^{-1}##, or use the quotient rule instead?
Either one. The chain rule might be a little easier.
 
Now that gives:
##\frac{d^{2}y}{dx^{2}}=-(\cos y-\sin y)^{-2} (-\sin y \frac{dy}{dx} -\cos y \frac{dy}{dx})##
 
sooyong94 said:
Now that gives:
##\frac{d^{2}y}{dx^{2}}=-(\cos y-\sin y)^{-2} (-\sin y \frac{dy}{dx} -\cos y \frac{dy}{dx})##

That should simplify to ##\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} = x(\frac{dy}{dx})^3## if you do the proper subs. Actually, it would've been much easier to leave everything on the LHS, and just use product rule and chain rule to get to that.

But it still doesn't help to put everything in terms of x. Honestly, I cannot see how you can progress from that stage.

I think you're much better off trying to find y as a function of x, then differentiating twice. This gives a quick answer.

To do that, think of how you would put ##a\sin x + b\cos x## into the form ##c\sin(x + \theta)##.

EDIT: There is a way to continue from ##\frac{d^2y}{dx^2} = x(\frac{dy}{dx})^3##. But you have to square the implicit equations for x and the first derivative and add them together to eliminate the y term (apply a trig identity as well). Seems like a bit more effort than just recasting y in terms of x from the start.
 
Last edited:
Well, the form ##c\sin(x+\theta)## worked nicely. :P
 

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