Finding the charge on pith balls

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the charge on pith balls using electrostatic and gravitational forces. The problem involves analyzing the forces acting on stationary pith balls suspended by strings and how these forces relate to the angle formed by the strings.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between electrostatic force and gravitational force, questioning the assumptions made about their equality. There is discussion about the forces acting on the pith balls, including tension, gravitational force, and electrostatic force.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the forces acting on the pith balls and have drawn connections between the forces. There is an ongoing exploration of how to derive the charge from the established relationships, with no explicit consensus reached on the approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework problem, which may limit the information available for deriving the charge. The discussion includes questioning the setup and definitions related to the forces involved.

hmparticle9
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Homework Statement
Two identical equally charged pith balls of mass ##m## and negligible radius are hanging from the same point on strings of length ##L##. The strings have an angle ##\theta## between them. What is the charge on each and the electric force on each ball?
Relevant Equations
$$F = \frac{q^2}{4\pi \epsilon_0 4 L^2 \sin^2 \frac{\theta}{2}}$$
The force is easily found to be:

$$F = \frac{q^2}{4\pi \epsilon_0 4 L^2 \sin^2 \frac{\theta}{2}}$$

I am trying to think how to get the charge ##q## from this. Since the balls are stationary the force felt on each of the balls must equal the force of gravity on the balls:

The force of gravity on the balls is ##mg \sin \frac{\theta}{2} ##.

However, if I set ##F## equal to this I do not get the answer in the book. The answer in the book is

$$\sqrt{(mg) \tan \frac{\theta}{2}4\pi \epsilon_0 4 L^2 \sin^2 \frac{\theta}{2}}$$

This,to me, suggests that the force on the ball is given by ##(mg) \tan \frac{\theta}{2}##. Could someone explain to me why this is the case?
 
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hmparticle9 said:
The force of gravity on the balls is ##mg \sin \frac{\theta}{2} ##.
Can you tell us how you arrived at this assertion?
 
hmparticle9 said:
However, if I set F equal to this
Why would you set the electrostatic force equal to the gravitational force? Are they in the same direction?
 
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Hi @hmparticle9. To add what's already been said, there are three forces acting on each particle. Can you name them and can you draw a free-body diagram for one of the particles?
 
Screenshot 2025-06-24 14.22.34.webp


##F_e## is the repulsive force from the other charge, ##T## is the tension from the string and ##mg## is the force due to gravity. The above comments are obviously correct: ##F_e## and the other forces point in different directions. I am not sure where to go from here.
 
Last edited:
hmparticle9 said:
View attachment 362505

##F_e## is the repulsive force from the other charge, ##T## is the tension from the string and ##mg## is the force due to gravity. The above comments are obviously correct: ##F_e## and the other forces point in different directions. I am not sure where to go from here.
Nicely drawn.

With the drawing in mind and given a value for ##\theta##, can you find a formula for ##T##?

With the formula for ##T## in hand, can you then find a formula for ##f_e##?
 
So I get
$$T \sin \frac{\theta}{2} = F_e \text{ and } T \cos \frac{\theta}{2} = mg$$
Dividing and rearranging I get
$$mg \tan \frac{\theta}{2} = F_e$$
which is exactly what I want?
 
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hmparticle9 said:
$$mg \tan \frac{\theta}{2} = F_e$$
which is exactly what I want?
Presumably the question mark at the end is not needed?
 
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Yes, my bad. I was thinking that @jbriggs444 had a different solution method and I am all ears.
 
  • #10
hmparticle9 said:
Yes, my bad. I was thinking that @jbriggs444 had a different solution method and I am all ears.
Nothing significantly different. It is essentially the same algebra the way I had in mind. And delivers the same result.
 

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