Finding the shape of a hanging rope

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the shape of a hanging rope, specifically exploring the mathematical modeling of the problem using integrals and concepts from physics. The subject area includes calculus and mechanics, particularly focusing on the principles of potential energy and the catenary curve.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use integrals to find a minimum area related to the rope's shape, considering both area and slope. They question how to achieve a minimum in their approach. Other participants suggest looking into the catenary and the principle of least action, while also noting the need for constraints on string length to find a minimum potential energy.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing guidance on relevant concepts and suggesting further exploration of constraints necessary for solving the problem. There are multiple interpretations being explored regarding the principles involved in the problem.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential issues with the original poster's mathematical expressions and the need for additional constraints to accurately model the problem. The discussion also touches on the terminology used in physics, specifically regarding the principle of least action.

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Homework Statement
given two poles at a distance between them and a rope that it's length is bigger than the distance between them, describe the shape of the rope.
Relevant Equations
no relevent equations
i started to think to maybe do an integral to find the minimum area, and then I thought that the area itself is not sufficient because there is more material depending on the slope. so I thought to do an integral depending on the length instead of x.
##dh^{2}=dx^{2}+dy^{2}##

##\int{}f(x)dh= \int{}f(x)\sqrt{dx^{2}+dy^{2}}##
##dy=\frac{dy}{dx}dx=dx f'(x)##
##\int{}f(x)\sqrt{dx^{2}+f'(x)^{2}dx^{2}}=\int{}f(x)\sqrt{f'(x)^{2}+1} dx^{2}##
how can I get a minimum to solvw this question?
 
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You can edit your post to fix latex issues rather than constantly making an entirely new post.
 
Look up the catenary and the principle of least action.
 
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You only have an integral describing the potential energy but without restrictions on the string length. In order to find an actual minimum of the potential energy, you will furthermore need to impose additional constraints for the string length. There are several ways in which you can do this.

docnet said:
Look up the catenary and the principle of least action.
Nothing is moving here so the principle of stationary* action is not really needed. Only minimizing the potential energy.

* The ”principle of least action” is a misnomer. It is more accurate to use ”stationary” as the solution may be a maximum or saddle point as well.
 
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