Fire and breathing in nitrogen-rich air

  • Thread starter Thread starter snorkack
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Air Fire
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

This discussion explores the implications of breathing in nitrogen-rich air, particularly in environments with reduced oxygen levels, such as at high altitudes or in controlled settings. It highlights that oxygen levels as low as 12-13% can be mildly impairing to humans but may prevent fire hazards due to slower oxidation reactions in the presence of nitrogen. The N2 FIREFIGHTER® system, which utilizes an Oxygen Reduction System (O.R.S), is presented as a method for fire prevention by altering atmospheric conditions. Additionally, historical context is provided regarding oxygen levels during the Permian period and their impact on species survival.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of oxygen and nitrogen properties in combustion reactions
  • Familiarity with the N2 FIREFIGHTER® system and its applications
  • Knowledge of the Joule-Thompson effect and its implications for gas release
  • Basic concepts of atmospheric pressure and its effects on human physiology
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the N2 FIREFIGHTER® system and its effectiveness in fire prevention
  • Study the Joule-Thompson effect and its relevance in gas behavior under pressure
  • Explore hypoxic air technology and its applications in safety and fire prevention
  • Investigate adaptations of human populations to low oxygen environments
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for fire safety engineers, environmental scientists, and professionals involved in atmospheric control systems, as well as anyone interested in the physiological effects of low oxygen environments.

snorkack
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
536
People routinely live above 4000 m, where oxygen partial pressure is under 130 mbar. True, we often suffer mountain sickness there, and take days adapting to the height as we walk up.
But airplanes are only pressurized to 760 mbar total, 160 mbar oxygen. And that drop, from 210 mbar to 160 mbar, happens in a few minutes as the plane climbs, with the few problems being caused by pressure changes, not lack of oxygen.

Now, note that while oxygen undergoes exothermic reactions to burn, very few substances (like Mg and Li) are capable to fix nitrogen.

Nitrogen takes up heat. Therefore in an environment where oxygen concentration is lower than 21 %, even though oxidation reactions like breathing still happen and release heat, the heat is spread to larger amount of nitrogen molecules, the peak temperature reached is lower, and that temperature most reactions are slower - and this hampers thermal runaways like fire.
Many common flammable substances cease to burn at surprisingly high oxygen concentration - like wood already at 17 %.

So...
Would it be safe to fill a room with gas of 12...13% oxygen, the rest nitrogen?
To prevent accidental suffocation on pure nitrogen of 0 % oxygen, it would make sense if the nitrogen is already mixed with 12...13% oxygen while stored.

True, 12...13% oxygen entered into rapidly (under a minute) might cause a mild impairment. But breathing fire and smoke also causes rapid impairment of a man.

Also, if air is stored in metal pressurized bottles, at room temperature and around 200 bar pressure, and suddenly released in case of need, it cools by Joule-Thompson effect. IIRC by about 30 degrees. So, cold air flow at about -10 Celsius can also be mildly impairing to man, but not seriously so. Would a blast of cold air at -10 Celsius and 12 % nitrogen be effective in blowing away fires and cooling overheated objects?
Now, 12...13 % oxygen is mildly impairing to man.

Would 15...17 % oxygen be a comfortable and safe environment to work in permanently, to avoid fire breaking out in the first place?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Biology news on Phys.org
Perhaps see..

http://www.n2firefighter.com/pagina.php?lingua=en&cod=1

N2 FIREFIGHTER®: fire prevention with Oxygen Reduction System
O.R.S (Oxygen Reduction System)
The N2 FIREFIGHTER® methodology prevents the development or spreading of open fires by adding nitrogen to the atmosphere.

Until recently, the focus was to discover a fire as quickly as possible and to extinguish it effectively. Technological progress, careful and meticulous studies during these decades made it possible to greatly reduce the risk of fires in general. However, a new method, based on the depletion of Oxygen, has opened completely new venues for us.

We are now able to create fully protected environments and to completely eliminate the fire hazard by changing the atmosphere within a building by allowing full access to people at the same time.
 
from: https://www.livescience.com/6981-gasping-air-lack-oxygen-worsened-great-dying.html

Raymond Huey and Peter Ward of the University of Washington have shown that a reduced supply of oxygen could explain high extinction rates that preceded the Great Dying, as well as the very slow recovery that followed.

Currently, oxygen makes up about 21 percent of our atmosphere, but in the early Permian period it was 30 percent. From this invigorating level, it fell to about 16 percent at the time of the Great Dying and over the next 10 million years continued to drop to 12 percent.

Paper: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/308/5720/398

Oxygen levels in the late Permian went to as low as 12%, which caused existing species to be restricted to low elevations with higher air pressure, for example. So, derive what you want but you are using mostly long extinct species as examples, not mammals or birds (dinosaurs).

Also consider Barheaded geese flying over the Himalayas:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4346704/

Note the extreme conditions and actual changes in metabolism required. FWIW: early dinosaurs were well-adapted to lower oxygen (like many modern migratory birds) and became important at the close of the Permian.

And lastly - there are human populations that are adapted to much lower oxygen levels (due to elevation), see the physiology and anatomical changes here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9881522
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BillTre

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 44 ·
2
Replies
44
Views
4K
Replies
12
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 287 ·
10
Replies
287
Views
27K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
23K
Replies
9
Views
8K
Replies
1
Views
7K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
9K