For All Positive Numbers: Is y the Solution?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the mathematical statement regarding the existence of a positive number \( y \) such that \( y^2 = x \) if and only if \( x > 0 \). Participants clarify that the phrase "there exists" does not imply a universal quantification, and the correct interpretation involves existential quantification. The consensus is that it is incorrect to assert that a single positive number can satisfy the equation for all positive numbers, emphasizing the importance of context in mathematical statements.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of existential and universal quantifiers in logic
  • Familiarity with basic algebraic concepts, particularly squaring numbers
  • Knowledge of mathematical notation, including symbols like \( \exists \) and \( \forall \)
  • Basic comprehension of real numbers and their properties
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  • Study the principles of mathematical logic, focusing on quantifiers
  • Explore the properties of real numbers and their algebraic relationships
  • Learn about the implications of existential statements in mathematical proofs
  • Review examples of correct and incorrect uses of quantifiers in mathematical contexts
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Students of mathematics, educators teaching algebra and logic, and anyone interested in the foundations of mathematical reasoning.

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Homework Statement


There exists y > 0 such that [y^{2} = x if and only if x > 0].

This means that "there is some positive number whose square equals all positive
numbers." - St. John College, Oxford

The Attempt at a Solution


I am not sure about this statement "- - some positive number whose square equals
all positive numbers", and particularly about the word "all".

I would read the statement as
If \exists y > 0, then \exists [ y^{2} = x if and only if x > 0]

It seems that the statement should be read as
If \exists y > 0, then \forall [ y^{2} = x if and only if x > 0]

Is there always "for all" after "such that"?
 
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soopo said:

Homework Statement


There exists y > 0 such that [y^{2} = x if and only if x > 0].

This means that "there is some positive number whose square equals all positive
numbers." - St. John College, Oxford

The Attempt at a Solution


I am not sure about this statement "- - some positive number whose square equals
all positive numbers", and particularly about the word "all".

I would read the statement as
If \exists y > 0, then \exists [ y^{2} = x if and only if x > 0]
You don't say "there exists" a statement. "There exists" and "for all" only apply to variables.

It seems that the statement should be read as
If \exists y > 0, then \forall [ y^{2} = x if and only if x > 0]

Is there always "for all" after "such that"?
Not necessarily. There exist x> 0 such that x2= 4. That has no "for all". Try thinking about what "for all" means rather than looking for general rules.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Try thinking about what "for all" means rather than looking for general rules.

It seems that we need to make statements true for a given context.

For example, the above example with "for all" is false, whereas right with the "exists". It is nonsense to say that there exists one positive real number whose square equals all positive numbers.

HallsofIvy said:
You don't say "there exists" a statement. "There exists" and "for all" only apply to variables.
The quantifiers apply to the variables. I agree with you about that.
 

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