Force and tension problems without using Newton's laws

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a tension problem involving two wires supporting a weight of 200 kg, with specific angles given for each wire. The original poster seeks to solve for the tension in each wire without applying Newton's laws, expressing curiosity about alternative methods such as geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use the law of sines to derive equations for the tensions in the wires but encounters difficulties in solving them. They express a desire to explore methods outside of Newton's laws.

Discussion Status

Participants are engaging in a dialogue about the equations presented by the original poster. Some participants point out that the equations may still be rooted in Newton's laws, while others are questioning the feasibility of solving the equations as posed. There is an exploration of different expressions of the problem, but no consensus on a method that avoids Newton's laws.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the original poster's understanding of Newton's laws, indicating a level of familiarity with traditional approaches to solving such problems. The discussion also highlights the challenge of solving the equations without the weight being provided.

Shay10825
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Hello. I was trying to find a way to solve the tension problems without using Newton’s laws. The problem says: A weight of 200 kg is supported by two wires. Find the magnitude of the tension in each wire. The angle in the top left is 35 and the angle in the top right is 41.

I used the law of sines and I said that the weight of 200 must be equal to the sum of the two tensions (u and v) which is (u*sin145 + v*sin41)

u/sin49 = (u*sin145 + v*sin41) / sin76

v/sin55 = (u*sin145 + v*sin41) / sin76

But I can’t solve these two equations and I don’t know why. The answer is u = 155.56 and v = 168.486. The answers work with the equation but for some reason I can’t solve these equations ( I keep getting zero).
How can I solve there to equations to get u = 155.56 and v = 168.486?

Also is there another way to solve these problems (without using Newton’s laws) using geometry or some other complicated way. I’m just playing around with the problems and I understand how to solve them using Newton’s laws. I am just curious.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5670/tension2wf.jpg

Thanks
 
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You already had the answers when you wrote the law of sines for u and v right after the "so then:" line in your picture.

Also, you are, in fact, using Newton's laws when you wrote your equations. I don't see how you could avoid it.
 
I wrote those two equations so you could see where I got the bottom two equations with just the u and v. I wanted to be able to solve the equations:

u/sin49 = (u*sin145 + v*sin41) / sin76

v/sin55 = (u*sin145 + v*sin41) / sin76

so i could solve these problens if they did not give wou the weight of 200.
 
so is there any way i can solve the equations:

u/sin49 = (u*sin145 + v*sin41) / sin76

v/sin55 = (u*sin145 + v*sin41) / sin76

for u and v?
 
You should have something like

[tex]v \sin 39 = u \sin 55[/tex]

and

[tex]u^2 + v^2 - 2 uv \cos 76 = 200^2[/tex]

and, once again, this is just another expression of Newton's Laws.
 

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