Force on Pulley Shaft - What is the Shaft Load?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the forces acting on a pulley shaft, specifically the nature of the shaft load and how it relates to the forces exerted by a belt and the pulley support. Participants explore the implications of torque, tension in the belt, and the reactions at the shaft connection, focusing on the calculations necessary for determining shaft diameter and deflection.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the designation of the shaft load, questioning why it is represented as a force vector in the opposite direction of the tension in the belt.
  • Another participant clarifies that the shaft load includes all forces acting on the shaft, including tension from the belt and the reaction from the bearing support, which may be equal and opposite.
  • A participant mentions that the connection between the electromotor and the pulley is fixed, suggesting that the shaft reactions oppose the green force vector.
  • Some participants discuss the concept of belt tension, with one stating that a difference in tension is necessary for power transmission, while another questions the implications of constant RPM on belt forces.
  • There is a suggestion that the book's representation of forces may be to maintain a force-balance convention, leading to confusion regarding the direction of the shaft load.
  • One participant asserts that in the real world, there will always be differences in forces due to non-ideal conditions, challenging the notion of constant tension in the belt.
  • Another participant emphasizes that constant RPM implies zero net force, suggesting that the forces on both sides of the belt should be equal during steady-state operation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of forces in the system, particularly regarding the direction and significance of the shaft load and belt tensions. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the mechanics involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in their understanding of the relationship between tension, torque, and shaft load, indicating a need for further clarification on these concepts. The discussion also touches on assumptions regarding ideal conditions versus real-world applications.

vrc
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hello,

I have some trouble understanding the force vector of a loaded pulley shaft:
the pulley is driven by the shaft with a torque T, the pulley on his turn is driving a belt.
because of Newton 3th law there's tension in the belt as shown,

ok, now the question: many books state that the green force is the shaft force => how can this be true:

the shaft load is de resultant force : adding those 2 red force vectores , so the shaft load must be a vector that is oriented toward right instead of that green force.

the green force is de reaction of the pulley support = reaction of the shaft

in shaft calculation they use the green force vector as shaft load...

do not understand it !
krachten.jpg


grtz
 
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Put a diagram up of the problem and make some form of attempt at the solution, then I will take a look.
 
oké, a better explenation:

riem.jpg


we see a pulley with a shaft; it is driving a belt because the shaft has a torque, the power tis transmitted because of a difference in belt force , logic

now: suppose I want to calculate the diameter of the shaft, first I have to know the shaft load,
I say it's the green force vector, but official mechanical books say that the shaft laod is a vector that has an opposed direction, it's pointed tot the secand quadrant

how could the shaft load be a vector opposed to the green one in the picture ?

thank you
 
The shaft load is all the forces acting ON the shaft. So you have the tension from your belt that is pushing on your shaft but there is also the bearing support that is pushing on your shaft. In your particular case, it just happens - from basic statics calculations - that the belt tension and the bearing support reaction are equal and opposite.
 
for my example, an electromotor is driving the pulley, so where the shaft is connected to the pulley, it's a fixed connections

to in this case there's just the shaft reactions that is opposed to the the green force vector,
but for deflection calulation/shaft diameter, I must use the green force vector...

I can't see another explenation.

thank you
 
someone who wants to confirm my ideas...

thank you
 
The force ON the shaft is acting in the green-line direction. The force that the shaft is applying is in the opposite direction. To calculate the deflection of the shaft, yes, use the line you drew. The book likely put it in the opposite direction to maintain force-balance convention.

Though, I don't see how a belt can have two different tensions on it if it is a single belt...
 
I assume also that the book might mean that the oppsite force is the one give the belt e preload to there is enough friction with the pulley. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to transmit power.

In rotation mode there's a different tension in de belt, that''s rather logic, how would the power be transmitted otherwise...

thank you

grtz
 
I doubt that. If there is tension in the belt, there will be power transmission. If it was preload, they would tell you. It doesn't matter though. They tell you the tensions in the belt, so that is all you need.
 
  • #10
difference in tension I mean: different forces in the belt,
if those forces would be equal, why would there be motion...
I have learned and understood that there only wille be motion if there's a difference in forces

grtz
 
  • #11
Yea. That was a misunderstanding on my part. Its the initial acceleration that you are studying. And the resulting deflection.
 
  • #12
what about initial acceleration ?
if the shaft is rotating at constant RPM, there also will be difference in belt forces...
If that isn't true I have a major problem in understanding physics !

grtz
 
  • #13
If you are talking real world, yea, there will be because nothing is completely inelastic and nothing is frictionless.

Newton's laws: F=m*a Force is a direct correlate to acceleration. Zero acceleration means zero net force. If you have a force difference, you have an acceleration. Constant RPM means constant velocity, which means zero net force. I.e. The pulley should be pulling the feed side with the same force that it is pushing the other side.

Someone chime in if I am wrong, but I don't believe I am.
 
  • #14
conclusion: constant RPM doens't excist and therefore will be a difference in belt force ?

grtz
 
  • #15
Hold...
 
  • #16
what do you mean with 'hold' ?

grtz
 
  • #17
VTC - sorry, but please could you re-size your picture to 800 wide or smaller. It has forced the text on all the entries in the thread to the same width and it's forcing scrolling to read the replies.

At least on my Firefox and XP.

Thanks.
 

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