Forgotten force: The other great cosmic attractor

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mrcotton
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Force
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms behind the generation of magnetic fields in celestial bodies, particularly focusing on the Earth's magnetic field and the dynamo effect. Participants explore the relationship between electric currents, magnetic fields, and the conditions necessary for these phenomena, as well as the implications of Lenz's Law.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the mechanism of magnetic field generation, specifically how induced currents can enhance rather than oppose the original field, raising concerns about conservation of energy.
  • Another participant notes that intergalactic magnetic fields are much weaker than Earth's, prompting a question about the influence of Earth's magnetic field on local geography.
  • A participant outlines three necessary conditions for generating a magnetic field: an electrically conductive fluid medium, kinetic energy from planetary rotation, and an internal energy source for convection.
  • There is a discussion about the role of Lenz's Law in opposing changes in magnetic fields and how convective currents can generate a changing field despite this opposition.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about the origin of the initial magnetic field that seeded the dynamo process during Earth's formation.
  • Another participant describes the feedback loop created by the interaction of the fluid with the seed field, while questioning the necessity of the seed field itself, suggesting that the flow of conducting liquid iron could generate a magnetic field independently.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and role of the seed magnetic field in the dynamo process, as well as the implications of Lenz's Law. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources and links to further information, indicating a reliance on external material for clarification. There are also mentions of limitations in understanding the initial conditions of Earth's magnetic field.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying geophysics, astrophysics, or anyone curious about electromagnetic theory and its applications in planetary science.

mrcotton
Messages
120
Reaction score
0
I have just read an article in the new scientist "Forgotten force: The other great cosmic attractor"

Would anyone be kind enough to help me understand this paragraph please?

"Now we have a pretty good idea how the sun and Earth generate their fields. As molten iron in Earth's outer core (or plasma in the sun's case) moves across magnetic field lines, the effect is to induce electric currents. These give rise to a magnetic field that supplements the existing one. Thanks to this dynamo action, a small "seed" field can grow into a much larger one."

How does that work?

I had always assumed wrongly it was molten iron ions moving that caused the field.
So with the mechanism proposed above I would have thought that (from Lenz's Law) that the induced current's field would oppose the original field, rather than enhance it. How does this fit with conservation of energy?

Any thoughts gratefully received.
D
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
The intergalactic magnetic fields are quite weak (as stated in the article) - much weaker than the Earth's magnetic field.

So does Iron Mountain, Michigan move under the influence of our magnetic field, or does it stay put due to gravity?

BTW, the Earth's magnetic field is explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field#Physical_origin
 
Hi UltrafastPED,
Thanks for the link,
This is what I have understood so far.

Three conditions are necessary for the generation of the magnetic field.

• An electrically conductive fluid medium (The liquid iron in the outer core)
• Kinetic energy provided by planetary rotation (Coriolis effect)
• An internal energy source to drive convective motions within the fluid (Convection in the liquid iron)
In a perfect conductor Lenz’s law would ensure that any change in magnetic field would be opposed. It is the convective currents that deform the liquid that generate a changing field. This process is limited by the competing action of Lenz’s law.

Do we have any idea of origin of the magnetic field the seeded the process originally as the Earth was formed. Was the Earth's field formed with it?
Thank you for any links or information
D
 
Here is a more interesting presentation:
http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/29dec_magneticfield/

which contains this link for the dynamo effect:
http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/dynamos2.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for your help - I'm still digesting the links you gave me.
So once the fluid has interacted with the seed field, it then generates its own magnetic flux, which due to the flow of a conducting liquid iron, creates a feedback loop, which increases the flux density of the field, limited only by Lenz's law and the magnetic and mechanical properties of the fluid.
Surely this field would be orientated in opposition to the seed field due to Lenz’s law,
I still don't really see why the seed field is needed - surely the flow itself would create a magnetic field anyway? Moving delocalised electrons constitute a current, and they are moving in a helical motion, like d.c. in a solenoid.

Thanks for all the help
ain't physics brilliant!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
6K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K