From classical statistical physics to quantum physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the historical connections between classical statistical physics, particularly the work of Boltzmann and Gibbs, and the development of quantum physics. Participants explore whether concepts introduced by Boltzmann and Gibbs, such as the partition function and indistinguishability, played a role in the formulation of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Historical
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that Boltzmann's theory of gases introduced fundamental notions of quantum physics, such as quanta and indistinguishability, and questions their influence on the development of quantum physics.
  • Another participant argues that while Boltzmann's work has merits, it is not directly related to quantum physics and critiques his later productivity in the field.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the influence of Gibbs on the founders of quantum mechanics, noting that Bose referenced the cellulation of phase space without mentioning Gibbs.
  • There is a discussion about whether the properties of matter related to quantum mechanics were already encoded in statistical mechanics and if they were recognized as new at the time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the influence of Boltzmann and Gibbs on quantum physics, with multiple competing views remaining regarding their contributions and relevance to the development of quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the historical context and influence of specific figures in the transition from classical to quantum physics, highlighting limitations in available literature and personal knowledge.

Mishra
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Hello,

This is more a question about history of science in general.

During my lectures on statistical physics, I noticed that some of the problems that Bolztmann faced lead to the introduction of:
##h/2\pi## (to introduce the unit of an action leading to a "unitless" partition function) which is nothing than the Plank's constant and the indistinguishability of atoms/molecules in a gaz introduced by Gibbs (in order to solve the Gibbs paradox).

Also, introducing the density operator, leading to quantum statistical mechanics is very simple, smooth and elegant.

Is it safe to say that the Boltzmann theory of gaz was be the first to introduce fundamental notions of quantum physics (the quanta, and the indistinguishability)? If so, do we know if these were helpful and used during the construction of quantum physics ? Is there anything to read about it (could not find anything yet) ?

Thank you and have a great day.
 
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I think the so-called <cellulation> of phase space in quanta of h is also due to Gibbs. The Boltzmann's theory of gases has its merits, but not related to quantum physics. With all due respect for the great Austrian, he was non-productive in Physics in the last years of his life, which coincided with the early development of the quantization ideas.
 
I knew I did'nt have anything to do with the quantization, I read he was deeply depressed and incapacitated during his later years.
But I was asking if the work of Gibbs to "fix" the statistical mechanics (hbar and indistinguishability) gave inspiration to the fathers of quantum physics. Or did we realized later that those properties of matter were already encoded in statistical mechanics and were, in fact, not that new ?
 
I cannot assess the influence of Gibbs upon the founders of Quantum Mechanics (1925-). Bose for instance mentions the cellulation of classical phase space in his famous article here: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01327326 but he didn't mention Gibbs at all.
 
Last edited:
My German is even worse than my English but I'll try to look in that direction ;)
Thank you
 

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