From local symmetry to General Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between local symmetry and the formulation of General Relativity (GR), examining the implications of gauge theories and symmetry groups in both classical and quantum contexts. Participants consider the mathematical similarities between gauge theory and GR, as well as the potential for constructing a quantum gravity theory based on symmetry principles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the Lagrange equation and discusses how transforming the Lagrangian with a constant leads to global symmetry, while transforming it with a function of position leads to local symmetry, suggesting a connection to GR.
  • Another participant points to mathematical similarities between gauge theory and GR, noting the difference between diffeomorphism invariance in GR and local gauge transformations in Yang-Mills theories.
  • A participant expresses the view that both GR and non-gravitational quantum physics can be constructed from symmetry groups, raising the question of pursuing a quantum gravity theory based on this idea.
  • One post references a thesis that discusses the relationship between Poincaré gauge invariance and diffeomorphism invariance, highlighting the implications for curvature and gauge covariant derivatives.
  • Another participant mentions that gauging the Poincaré algebra leads to the elimination of local translations, resulting in symmetries relevant to GR, and suggests that similar approaches can be applied to other algebraic structures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the connections between local symmetry, gauge theories, and GR. There is no consensus on the implications for quantum gravity, and the discussion remains open-ended with multiple competing ideas presented.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific mathematical definitions and assumptions that are not fully detailed in the discussion. The relationship between different types of gauge theories and their implications for GR is not resolved, and participants do not reach a definitive conclusion regarding the construction of a quantum gravity theory.

quangtu123
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First I want to consider an example of 1D motion. Lagrange equation:

$$ \frac{d}{dt} \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot x} - \frac{\partial L}{\partial x} = 0 $$

If we transform $$L \rightarrow L+a$$ with a is constant, the equation of motion remains unchanged. This is global symmetry.

To obtain local symmetry we want when transforming $$L \rightarrow L+a(x) $$ we still have the same equation. To obtain that we introduce the "total derivative":

$$\frac{Df}{dt} = \frac{df}{dt} + \frac{\partial a}{\partial x}$$

Then the equantion of motion would be unchanged under any local transformation:

$$\frac{D}{dt} \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot x} - \frac{\partial L}{\partial x} = 0$$

The quantity $$\frac{\partial a}{\partial x}$$ is similar to the Christoffel symbols in general relativity.

Is there anyway to construct General Relativity by demanding local symmetry like this?
 
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quangtu123 said:
http://physics.stackexchange.com/qu...h-extent-is-general-relativity-a-gauge-theory

It seems like there is some mathematical similarities between gauge theory and GR.

Yes certainly. But bear in mind there is a difference between the consideration of classical GR as a gauge theory under diffeomorphisms and the usual considerations of Yang-Mills gauge theories.

The diffeomorphism invariance of the Einstein-Hilbert action is certainly not the same thing even in spirit as the invariance of the minimally coupled Dirac action under a local ##U(1)## gauge transformation. This is explained quite well in the Weinstein paper above.
 
As the way I see all general relativity and non-gravitation quantum physics can be constructed from the groups of symmetry (in broad sense). It's somewhat really awesome.

Is there any idea like this to pursue a quantum gravity theory?
 
quangtu123 said:
Is there any idea like this to pursue a quantum gravity theory?

I have less than zero knowledge about quantum gravity, sorry!
 
Effects of curvature and gravity from flat spacetime

EFFECTS OF CURVATURE AND GRAVITY FROM FLAT SPACETIME

This is the title of a thesis which shows (amongst other things) that the Poincare gauge invariance is the same as the diffeomorphism invariance. Worth a read with lots of local gauge invariant stuff.

arXiv:1406.4303v1 [gr-qc] 17 Jun 2014 (http://arxiv.org/abs/1406.4303

One thing that arises from gauging the Poincare group is two gauge covariant derivatives (p39) ##\nabla_\mu## and ##\nabla_i##, the first has field strength

##[\nabla_\mu, \nabla_\nu]\phi = (1/2){R^{ij}}_{\mu\nu}\Sigma_{ij}\phi##

where ##{R^{ij}}_{\mu\nu}## can be written in terms of the spin connections (gauge fields) ##{\omega^{ij}}_{\mu}##.

The field strength seems to be a gauge based version of the geometric definition of the curvature tensor in GR (Wald p37~)
##(\nabla_{a}\nabla_{b}-\nabla_b\nabla_a)\omega_c={R_{abc}}^d \omega_d##

This is either blindingly obvious, or an interesting tie-up.

He also gets

##{R^{ij}}_{\mu\nu}=\partial_\mu {\omega^{ij}}_\nu-\partial_\nu {\omega^{ij}}_\mu + {\omega^i}_{l\mu}{\omega^l}_{j\nu}-{\omega^i}_{l\nu}{\omega^l}_{j\mu}##

which has the same structure as the Riemann tensor defined in terms of the Levi-Civita connection ##{\Gamma^a}_{bc}##.
 
Last edited:
In gauging the poincare algebra, you can show that by putting the translational curvature to zero eliminates the local translations. This leaves you with a soft algebra, consisting of LLT's and gct's, the symmetries of GR. The same can be done for other algebras, like n=1 superpoincare, (n=2) superbargmann and the (super)conformal algebra.
 

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