From where did the ##ie\gamma## come into the picture? (QED)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the presence of the ##ie\gamma## factors in the electromagnetic vertex function within quantum electrodynamics (QED), specifically in the context of Feynman diagrams and loop calculations. Participants explore the derivation and implications of these terms in relation to Feynman amplitudes and vertex functions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the inclusion of the ##ie\gamma## terms in the vertex function, noting that they are not added when writing the Feynman amplitude.
  • Another participant suggests that the ##ie\gamma## factors arise from the QED interaction term and encourages checking the three-point function to verify this.
  • A participant reflects on their understanding of the Feynman amplitude process, outlining steps for handling internal loops and vertex functions.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of going through the full derivation of the Green's function and scattering amplitude to clarify the source of the Feynman rules.
  • One participant acknowledges a lack of clarity regarding the number of ##ie## factors on each side of the equation, suggesting it may relate to the definition of ##\Gamma##.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the derivation and significance of the ##ie\gamma## terms. While some agree on their origin from the QED interaction term, others remain uncertain about specific aspects of the equation and the overall derivation process. The discussion reflects multiple competing views and unresolved questions.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the complexity of the derivation process and the potential for missing details due to varying levels of experience with quantum field theory. There are references to specific steps in the derivation that may not be fully resolved in the discussion.

Wrichik Basu
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While reading the electromagnetic vertex function at one loop, the authors of the book I am reading, wrote down the following vertex function:

245873
corresponding to this Feynman diagram:

245874
The superscript in ##\Gamma## is the number of loops being considered.

My problem is with the equation. I know that they are considering the loop only, leaving out the external Fermion and photon lines. I understand how the two propagators, ##iS_F(p' + k)## and ##iS_F(p + k)## have come, and also how the last term has come (from the propagator of photon field). But why are the ##ie\gamma## present before each propagator term? While writing the Feynman amplitude, we don't add these terms. Why are we adding them here?

N.B.: Sorry for not typing out the equation. It was a long one, and I thought you can understand from the scan itself, so I posted a screenshot. In case of any discrepancy, let me know, and I shall type it out.
 
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And the book you're reading is...?
 
haushofer said:
And the book you're reading is...?
This specific case is taken from the book An Introductory Course in Particle Physics by Palash B. Pal. I am actually reading the QFT book by the same author, but as I couldn't understand something in the latter, I referred to the former.

It is very much possible that I have missed something, as I am a beginner. Please point out the problems so that I can learn.
 
They simply come from the QED interaction term. You can try to calculate the three-point function to first order and see that it comes out this way.
 
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HomogenousCow said:
They simply come from the QED interaction term.
I remembered as soon as you said that: they come from the vertices because the Feynman rule for the fermion-photon vertex is ##ie\gamma_\mu##. My foolishness.

Just tell me if I have got this correct:

When I am writing the Feynman amplitude from the Feynman diagram, the steps are:
  1. Check whether there are internal loops. If there are no loops but just simple internal boson or fermion (or photon) lines, I will proceed normally.
  2. If there are loops, I will first write down the "inner" vertex function for all the internal lines. This will include any vertex that occurs in the loop.
  3. Then I will proceed to write the full Feynman amplitude (for the whole diagram). This will include external lines and the "inner" vertex function which I have just computed.
This is actually making sense now.
 
Have you gone through the full derivation at least once by yourself? Because it really helps to see where everything is coming from.

By "full derivation" I mean something like:
1. Expanding the Greens function to some order
2. Evaluating the term(s) either with Wick's theorem or a path integral
3. Feed your results into the LSZ to obtain the scattering amplitude

It's a lengthy exercise but it really helps demystify the Feynman rules.
 
Wrichik Basu said:
This specific case is taken from the book An Introductory Course in Particle Physics by Palash B. Pal. I am actually reading the QFT book by the same author, but as I couldn't understand something in the latter, I referred to the former.

It is very much possible that I have missed something, as I am a beginner. Please point out the problems so that I can learn.
To be honest, it has been a while for me. I can see on the right hand side where the three factors of ##i e \gamma ## come from, since you have three vertices there. But why the left hand side has only one single factor of ##i e ##, I can't see. I guess it's in the definition of ##\Gamma##, but as I said, it has been a while and I'm probably overlooking something silly.
 
HomogenousCow said:
Have you gone through the full derivation at least once by yourself? Because it really helps to see where everything is coming from.

By "full derivation" I mean something like:
1. Expanding the Greens function to some order
2. Evaluating the term(s) either with Wick's theorem or a path integral
3. Feed your results into the LSZ to obtain the scattering amplitude

It's a lengthy exercise but it really helps demystify the Feynman rules.
Yes, I did that after posting my previous message in this thread. Things see now clear.
 

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