Gas Laws - What is the final pressure in the system?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem involving gas laws, specifically the final pressure in a system of two connected glass vessels containing helium gas. The scenario includes initial conditions of temperature and pressure, as well as a change in temperature after the vessels are connected. Participants explore the application of the ideal gas law (PV=nRT) to determine the final pressure after the valve is opened and the temperature is raised.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Participants discuss the initial conditions of the gas in vessel M and the evacuated state of vessel N, noting the volume relationship between the two vessels.
  • There is a suggestion to express the number of moles of helium in terms of the initial volume to simplify calculations.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about how to find the mass of helium and its relation to volume, questioning how to express mass in terms of the volume of vessel M.
  • It is noted that the number of moles is sufficient for calculations, and that mass may not be necessary as it could cancel out in the final formula.
  • A participant provides a calculation leading to a final pressure of approximately 3.18 × 10^4 Pa, corresponding to one of the multiple-choice options provided in the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of the ideal gas law and the approach to solving the problem, but there is some uncertainty regarding the necessity of mass in the calculations and how to express it in terms of volume. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved regarding the best method to derive the final pressure without explicitly calculating mass.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the ideal gas behavior and the dependence on the definitions of volume and mass in the context of the problem. Some participants express confusion about the relationship between mass and volume, which may affect their understanding of the calculations.

Priyadarshini
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Homework Statement


Two glass vessels M and N are connected by a closed valve.
M contains helium at 20 °C at a pressure of 1 × 10^5 Pa. N has been evacuated, and has three times the volume of M. In an experiment, the valve is opened and the temperature of the whole apparatus is raised to 100 °C.
What is the final pressure in the system?
A 3.18 × 10^4 Pa
B 4.24 × 10^4 Pa
C 1.25 × 10^5 Pa
D 5.09 × 10^5 Pa

Homework Equations


PV=nRT
Where R=8.31J/Kmol

The Attempt at a Solution


For M
T=20 °C = 298 K
P= 10^5 Pa
V= x
For N
V =3x
T =100°C = 373K
Now do I find the change in the T and V and use PV=nRT to calculate the change in the P and then find the final P? But I do not know the mass of helium, so I can not find the number of moles.
 
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Priyadarshini said:

Homework Statement


Two glass vessels M and N are connected by a closed valve.
M contains helium at 20 °C at a pressure of 1 × 10^5 Pa. N has been evacuated, and has three times the volume of M. In an experiment, the valve is opened and the temperature of the whole apparatus is raised to 100 °C.
What is the final pressure in the system?
A 3.18 × 10^4 Pa
B 4.24 × 10^4 Pa
C 1.25 × 10^5 Pa
D 5.09 × 10^5 Pa

Homework Equations


PV=nRT
Where R=8.31J/Kmol

The Attempt at a Solution


For M
T=20 °C = 298 K
P= 10^5 Pa
V= x
For N
V =3x
T =100°C = 373K
Now do I find the change in the T and V and use PV=nRT to calculate the change in the P and then find the final P? But I do not know the mass of helium, so I can not find the number of moles.
You'll have to work out the mass of the helium given the initial conditions and the fact that vessel M has a fixed volume, VM. The mass will be in terms of VM. You are given the volume of vessel N, VN, in terms of VM.
 
Try to express the number of moles of helium in terms of V (initial volume) and see, if it doesn't cancel out in the final formula.
 
SteamKing said:
You'll have to work out the mass of the helium given the initial conditions and the fact that vessel M has a fixed volume, VM. The mass will be in terms of VM. You are given the volume of vessel N, VN, in terms of VM.
What is the relation between mass and volume? Mass remains constant, irrespective of the gas, but how do I find the mass in terms of Vm?
 
Borek said:
Try to express the number of moles of helium in terms of V (initial volume) and see, if it doesn't cancel out in the final formula.
But I don't know the mass. What is the relation between mass and volume?
 
Priyadarshini said:
What is the relation between mass and volume? Mass remains constant, irrespective of the gas, but how do I find the mass in terms of Vm?
That's what the gas law is telling you: PV = n RT, or n / V = P / RT
 
Priyadarshini said:
But I don't know the mass.

You don't need mass, number of moles is enough. But actually you don't need it either, as in the end it should cancel out, and you should be able to express the final result using given information.

What is the relation between mass and volume?

Once you know number of moles and gas identity, calculating mass is trivial. What is molar mass of helium?
 
Borek said:
You don't need mass, number of moles is enough. But actually you don't need it either, as in the end it should cancel out, and you should be able to express the final result using given information.
Once you know number of moles and gas identity, calculating mass is trivial. What is molar mass of helium?
Okay so,
n= mass/4
then using n/V=P/RT
(m/4)/V=10^5/8.31x298
(m/4)/V=40.3815
Where V is the the volume of N
and when the gas expands into M, its volume is 4V of n
So,
(m/4)/4V=P/8.31x373
40.3815/4=P/8.31x373
P= 31800 (approx.) which is 3.18 x 10^4 Pa, option (A)
Thank you, the answer matched!
 
SteamKing said:
That's what the gas law is telling you: PV = n RT, or n / V = P / RT
Thanks!
 

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