Gauge bosons and the weak mixing angle

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the properties and implications of the Weinberg angle in the context of gauge bosons, specifically the W and Z bosons, within the framework of the Standard Model of particle physics. Participants explore theoretical questions regarding the angle's influence on boson mixing, its relationship to CP violation, and the potential consequences of varying its value.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that the Weinberg angle affects neutral boson mixing due to the mixing of the SU(2) and U(1) gauge groups, while W+ and W- remain unaffected.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the relationship between the Weinberg angle and the CP violation angle, with some suggesting they are independent parameters of the Standard Model.
  • Participants discuss how changing the Weinberg angle could alter the masses of the W and Z bosons, with implications for weak interactions and the stability of particles like hadrons and nuclei.
  • Some argue that if the Weinberg angle were set to extreme values (0 or 90 degrees), it would lead to significant changes in the interactions and masses of the gauge bosons, potentially resulting in a very different physical universe.
  • Questions are raised about why the Higgs boson interacts with the Z boson but not with the photon, with explanations referencing the residual U(1) symmetry after symmetry breaking.
  • Concerns are expressed about the implications of changing the Weinberg angle on the evolution of the universe and the stability of matter, with some participants suggesting that such changes could lead to unobservable physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of the Weinberg angle, with no clear consensus on the extent of its impact on physical laws or the nature of its relationship with other parameters. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the sensitivity of life-friendly laws to variations in the angle.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the coupling constants associated with the Weinberg angle change with energy, which may complicate the discussion of its effects. There is also mention of the theoretical implications of altering the angle, but these remain speculative and contingent on various assumptions.

tzimie
Messages
256
Reaction score
27
<<Mentor note: Moved from other thread.>>

PeterDonis said:
$$
W^+ = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \left( W^1 + i W^2 \right)
$$

$$
W^- = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \left( W^1 - i W^2 \right)
$$

$$
Z = \cos \theta W^3 - \sin \theta B
$$

$$
\gamma = \sin \theta W^3 + \cos \theta B
$$

I have 4 questions:

1. Why Weinberg angle affects neutral boson mixing, while W+ and W- are unaffected?
2. Is there any relation between Weinberg angle and CP violation angle? Are they absolutely independent?
3. How our world would be different if value of the angle was different, especially in extreme cases 0 and 90?
4. Z appears only slightly different from photon, why Higgs boson interacts with Z but not with photon? They both "contain" W3 and B! How Higgs interacts with W3 and B before symmetry breaking? (math of electroweak theory is far beyond me, this is why I am asking, may be there is a simple explanation)

Thank you
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
tzimie said:
1. Why Weinberg angle affects neutral boson mixing, while W+ and W- are unaffected?

Because there's a mixing with the SU(2) and U(1) that are broken, and the mixing angle between those gauge groups is the Weinberg angle. Don't forget that the weinberg angle can be written in term of the coupling constant characteristic of each of those two groups divided by a "distance" of them.
\cos \theta_w = \frac{g_2}{\sqrt{g_2^2 + g_Y^2}} ~~, ~~\sin \theta_w = \frac{g_Y}{\sqrt{g_2^2+g_Y^2}}
You can build triangles with g_Y and g_2 and illustrate it.

tzimie said:
2. Is there any relation between Weinberg angle and CP violation angle? Are they absolutely independent?

I am not sure about it, but I think there isn't any relation. They are independent free parameters of the SM.

tzimie said:
3. How our world would be different if value of the angle was different, especially in extreme cases 0 and 90?

One thing I see from just looking at the expressions of Z,gamma is that there will be no interference between them.
However let's go back again at the cos,sin expressions. If theta was 0 or the cos=1, then obviously you get that you didn't have any U(1) contribution in the first place g_Y \rightarrow 0. If that was the case then the masses of the W and Z would be equal because:
m_W^2 = \frac{g_2^2 }{4} v^2_F ~~,~~ m_Z^2 = \frac{g_2^2 + g_Y^2}{4}v_F^2
or
\frac{m_W^2}{m_Z^2} =\frac{g_2^2 }{g_Y^2+g_2^2} = \cos^2 \theta_w

In a similar manner you get the same for SU(2) with π/2 (g_2 \rightarrow 0). In that case, strangely the W mass appears to be very small/almost zero while the Z mass will not.

I think this is quite natural in any case, since by sending g_Y or g_2 to 0, you are not breaking that part of the symmetry.
So for example in cos=1 case the U(1)_Y remains unbroken (and so there is hardly any "mixing" coming from it in SU(2) ).
For the cos=0 case, the SU(2) remains unbroken and U(1) breaks. The massive boson is then only 1, while you have 3 remaining massless bosons: Ws and photon.

These are a few "conclusions" I reached by looking at some formulas.

tzimie said:
4. Z appears only slightly different from photon, why Higgs boson interacts with Z but not with photon? They both "contain" W3 and B! How Higgs interacts with W3 and B before symmetry breaking? (math of electroweak theory is far beyond me, this is why I am asking, may be there is a simple explanation)

The maths are quiet clear and you can find the answer by working 'em out.
A fast answer good for almost anyone who has seen the Higgs potential, is because there is still a flat direction at the Higgs potential after the Higgs field acqured a vacuum expectation value breaking spontaneously the SU(2)xU(1) into a single U(1) (so you still have to have a massless boson). Imagine the bottom of the mexican hat, where you can rotate around freely (that's the remained U(1) transformation of the Higgs field)
 
Last edited:
Thank you for detailed answer!

ChrisVer said:
There are a few "conclusions" I reached by looking at some formulas.

... to be more specific, how sensitive life (life-friendly laws of our universe) is to that angle?
I mean, does changing it slightly break something completely in, say, creating/stability of hadrons, atoms, nuclei etc, or you can change with it without dramatic consequences say in ranges 5-70 degrees?
 
if you change it, you are obviously changing the masses of the W,Z bosons [their ratio]. So yes, in fact you are changing the physics (I cannot answer reliably on that, since it wouldn't make sense).
However it's not a constant by itself, since the coupling constants change with energy (but I think that's not what you are asking).
This is off-topic in general, if you like create another thread.
 
ChrisVer said:
if you change it, you are obviously changing the masses of the W,Z bosons [their ratio]. So yes, in fact you are changing the physics (I cannot answer reliably on that, since it wouldn't make sense).
However it's not a constant by itself, since the coupling constants change with energy (but I think that's not what you are asking).
This is off-topic in general, if you like create another thread.

Why it wouldn't make sense?
It makes a perfect sense in, eternal-inflation-with-baby-universes-with-different-parameters-of-standard-model scenario.
Sorry for off topic, but in general, I would like to understand what is a "shape" of a life-friendly cloud in 20+ dimensional space, and how close are we to the center However, I've never seen any articles regarding this, where all parameters are analyzed. Of course, we all know about "lucky coincidences" like Carbon cycle, absence of nuclei with 5 and 8 hadrons, neutron "almost stability" etc, but I've never seen such things mapped directly into parameters of the standard model.
 
tzimie said:
Z appears only slightly different from photon, why Higgs boson interacts with Z but not with photon?

In the Higgs mechanism, there is a residual U(1) symmetry left after symmetry breaking. The photon corresponds to this symmetry and is therefore massless and does not interact with the Higgs field. Said in a different way, the photon is defined as the electrically neutral gauge boson which does not have Higgs field interactions.

tzimie said:
How our world would be different if value of the angle was different, especially in extreme cases 0 and 90?

As has already been indicated, the Weinberg angle is ultimately dependent on the coupling strengths of the gauge groups. If ##\sin(\theta) = 0##, then the hypercharge gauge group coupling is zero and if ##\cos(\theta) = 0##, then the SU(2) gauge coupling is zero. In the former case, the hypercharge does not interact with anything. The Higgs interaction with the gauge bosons becomes ##g^2 W^2 \Phi^2##, resulting in an equal mass for all SU(2) gauge bosons. The hypercharge boson remains massless (and completely decoupled from the rest of the world, you might just leave it out of your theory).

When ##\cos(\theta) = 0##, the SU(2) does not couple at all and the ##Z## is equal to the hypercharge gauge boson, which will obtain a mass from the fact that the Higgs also has a hypercharge. The Higgs being an SU(2) doublet becomes meaningless as the SU(2) does not couple at all. You are left with three rather uninteresting non-interacting ##W## fields (which you might just leave out of your theory).
 
tzimie said:
Why it wouldn't make sense?

Because changing the physics of something, in this case the masses of the heavy bosons (W,Z) by playing around with the Weinberg angle, is going to change many things about the weak interactions (unobserved changes => unreal)...
As for if this can have an effect on how the universe evolved (for example some particle decay lifetimes will be altered). How will they alter I am in no position to answer (depends).PS to mentors : my post #2 here was an answer to a post tht exists in the other thread :DD
 
ChrisVer said:
PS to mentors : my post #2 here was an answer to a post tht exists in the other thread :DD

I am not sure I understand what you are talking about ... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::-p
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K