Gauge eigenstates vs. Mass eigenstates

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the distinction between gauge eigenstates and mass eigenstates within the context of the standard model of particle physics. Participants explore the definitions, implications, and transformations involved in these concepts, touching on theoretical aspects and the role of gauge interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Kontilera questions the definition of gauge eigenstates and their transformation into mass eigenstates, expressing confusion about the process.
  • One participant states that gauge eigenstates are unphysical and explains that quarks in the standard model have right-handed components due to their mass, with the Lagrangian initially written in terms of these gauge eigenstates.
  • Another participant elaborates that gauge eigenstates are defined based on their interactions with other fields, providing an example involving quarks and W bosons.
  • Several participants express uncertainty about the terminology, questioning whether "gauge eigenstates" is a misnomer and discussing the existence of eigenvalue equations related to gauge groups.
  • One participant suggests that the relevant eigenvalue equations involve the Cartan generator of gauge groups, mentioning the representation of gauge bosons and fermions in SU(2).
  • Another participant adds that it may only be the fermions that function as eigenvectors of gauge-group related operators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement regarding the terminology and definitions of gauge eigenstates and mass eigenstates. There is no consensus on whether "gauge eigenstate" is an appropriate term, and multiple interpretations of the concepts are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the potential confusion surrounding the terminology and the definitions of gauge eigenstates, suggesting that the discussion may depend on specific interpretations of the standard model and group theory.

Kontilera
Messages
176
Reaction score
24
Hello fellow physicsforumists.
I am currently looking at the standard model and one of the key ingridients is to rotate the gauge eigenstates to the mass eigenstates by a transformation acting on their family index. The problem is that I can't really see what we are doing.

The mass eigenstates are such that the massterm coefficients matrices are diagonal. But how do we define gauge eigenstates to begin with?

Please, if you have the energy to write some word about this I would be thankful.

Best Regards
Kontilera
 
Physics news on Phys.org
gauge eigenstates are unphysical.Each quark in standard model has right handed components because they are massive.Lagrangian is first written in terms of the doublet and singlet fields which contain these unphysical quarks which are termed as gauge quarks or sometimes gauge eigenstates.When you use yukawa coupling to give masses to quarks,a mass matrix is generated.these determine the masses and flavour mixing of quarks.The quark fields used before(SSB) are unphysical gauge eigenstes,you have to find the physical or mass eigenstates by transforming the quark mass matrices into diagonal form.
 
The unphysical gauge eigenstates are defined based on the other fields that will be connected to it through the gauge interaction, so for instance there is a term like uwd' in the Lagrangian which represents the interaction of a u quark with a W boson and a d' unphysical quark. The d' along with the s' and d' can be related to the physical (mass eigenstates) fields d, s, and b through a "rotation".
 
Thanks for the answers. I helped me some but I'm not sure I understand why they are referred to as gauge eigenstates.. is there an eigenvalue equation?
 
Kontilera said:
Thanks for the answers. I helped me some but I'm not sure I understand why they are referred to as gauge eigenstates.. is there an eigenvalue equation?
They are more commonly referred as gauge quarks,gauge eigenstate is just misnomer.They are written like like that because they relate to physical mass eigenstates.
 
Kontilera said:
Thanks for the answers. I helped me some but I'm not sure I understand why they are referred to as gauge eigenstates.. is there an eigenvalue equation?

andrien said:
They are more commonly referred as gauge quarks,gauge eigenstate is just misnomer.They are written like like that because they relate to physical mass eigenstates.

I'm a little rusty on my group theory, but I don't think it's a misnomer. The relevant eigenvalue equations are the ones where the operator is a Cartan generator of one of the gauge groups right? Or some such thing. For instance if we consider SU(2), then before symmetry breaking the 3 (massless) gauge bosons are eigenvectors of the diagonal SU(2) generator, in the 3x3 (I think this is the adjoint?) representation. Similarly the left handed (massless) fermions are eigenvectors of the same generator but in the 2x2 (fundamental?) representation.
 
Err actually maybe it is only the fermions that work like that; I am pretty sure they at least are all eigenvectors of some gauge-group related operator or another.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
6K
  • · Replies 50 ·
2
Replies
50
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K