General Relativity and the precession of the perihelion of Mercury

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the anomalous precession of the perihelion of Mercury as a test of General Relativity (GR). Participants explore the coordinate systems used in calculations related to this phenomenon and the nature of invariant predictions in GR.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the relevance of coordinate systems in verifying predictions of GR, suggesting that physical phenomena like perihelion advance are invariant and not coordinate-dependent.
  • Others seek clarification on what constitutes an invariant prediction related to the perihelion advance, with examples including the angular position of Mercury relative to fixed stars.
  • A participant references historical observations by Urbain Le Verrier to illustrate the precision of measurements related to Mercury's perihelion precession.
  • There is discussion about the equations of motion in GR, particularly the role of the Schwarzschild radius and the implications of using different coordinate systems, such as isotropic coordinates.
  • Some participants assert that the invariant measurement of the precession can be calculated in any coordinate chart, emphasizing the importance of choosing an appropriate chart for computations.
  • A later reply raises a question about whether the "form" of an object's trajectory in space, such as being closed or elliptical, is invariant, prompting further clarification on the term "form."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of coordinate systems in relation to invariant predictions, with some asserting that physical phenomena are invariant while others seek specific examples and clarifications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of trajectory forms in relation to invariance.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various mathematical concepts and historical observations, but the discussion includes unresolved assumptions about the nature of invariant predictions and the specifics of coordinate systems used in calculations.

  • #31
cianfa72 said:
Ok, so "trajectory in space" is not frame-invariant.
Correct.

cianfa72 said:
in coordinates spatially centered on the Sun such a trajectory is not closed or elliptical.
Yes.

cianfa72 said:
which are the Mercury's spacetime path invariants we are interested in ?
The invariant that is actually measured is the angular position of Mercury in Earth's sky relative to other visible objects in the sky, like the other stars and planets, as a function of Earth's proper time.
 
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