Geometrical interpretation of this coordinate transformation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the geometric interpretation of a coordinate transformation from the (x,y) space to the (\check{x},\check{y}) space. Participants explore how to visualize this transformation and its implications for evaluating an integral involving a transcendental function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Homework-related, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to understand the geometric interpretation of the given coordinate transformation equations.
  • Another participant questions whether the transformation is meant to be interpreted from (x',y') to (x,y) space, suggesting that the original poster sketch the transformation to aid understanding.
  • A participant clarifies that the transformation is not a homework problem but is related to solving an integral, indicating the need to visualize the new coordinate system for determining limits of integration.
  • There is a request for more information about the integral being evaluated, including whether it involves a line integral and the nature of the variable β.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to assist without additional details about the integral.
  • Another participant suggests parameterizing the integral and using software tools like MATLAB to visualize the coordinate lines for better understanding.
  • A later reply seeks clarification on whether the integration is performed in the (x,y) space over the curve defined by \check{y}.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to visualize the transformation or the specifics of the integral. Multiple viewpoints and suggestions are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the integration limits and the role of the parameter β, indicating that these aspects may depend on further clarification of the integral's context.

jam_27
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How can I geometrically interpret this coordinate transformation (from x,y space to [itex]\check{x}[/itex],[itex]\check{y}[/itex] space)?

x = [itex]\check{x}[/itex]cos(β) - [itex]\check{y}[/itex]sin(β)
y = [itex]\frac{1}{2}[/itex]([itex]\check{x}[/itex]2 -[itex]\check{y}[/itex]2)sin(2β) -[itex]\check{x}[/itex][itex]\check{y}[/itex]cos (2β)
 
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Did you mean to interpret the transformation from x'y' to xy space?

This looks like a homework assignment so you need to show some work for us to help you. I would suggest trying to sketch it out and then interpret your sketch of coordinate lines.

So to start if you pick beta to be zero radians then x=x' and y= - x'y'

then sub in x for x' you get y = - x^2 which is what kind of curve?
 
Its not a HW problem. I am trying to solve an integral where the integrand is a transcendental function.

Using the coordinate transformation here, I came up with the above coordinate transformation for my case. What I need to do now is to draw the new [itex]\hat{x}[/itex][itex]\hat{y}[/itex] on top of x,y cartesian coordinate system to get the new limits of integration, before attempting to solve the integral.

The integral is from (0 → 1) in x,y so I need to figure out only the upper limit of integration in the new coordinate system. Also, both sin (β) and cos (β) are known.

So, I need some direction on how to proceed to draw the new coordinate system on x,y.

Let me know if more information is required.
 
Last edited:
I don't know how to help at this point. Can you show us the integral?

Are you integrating from x=0 to x=1 over some curve in x and y ie a line integral? and now you have a new coordinate system x', y' where you need to find the x'(0,y(0)) and x'(1,y(1)) or something like that? and the beta is a constant or does it vary with x' and y'?
 
jedishrfu said:
I don't know how to help at this point. Can you show us the integral?

Are you integrating from x=0 to x=1 over some curve in x and y ie a line integral? and now you have a new coordinate system x', y' where you need to find the x'(0,y(0)) and x'(1,y(1)) or something like that? and the beta is a constant or does it vary with x' and y'?

Exactly. So, assuming I have done everything correctly - here are the details.

I am trying to evaluate

01y(x,y)dx, where

y= (a+b)*x - b*x*exp(p*x+q*y) - c*(p*x2 + q*y)

with a, b, c, p and q all known constants. Also, its known that y = 0 at x = 0 and y = 0 at x =1.

Now using the coordinate transformation above, and sin(β) = p/h and cos (β) = q/h together with h2 = p2 + q2, I get (in the transformed coordinates)

[itex]\check{y}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{h}{p}[/itex] [(a + b) - b*exp (h*[itex]\check{x}[/itex]) - (c*h + q/h)[itex]\check{x}[/itex]] which is only a function of [itex]\check{x}[/itex] in R.H.S.

Now I need to evaluate UL [itex]\check{y}[/itex]d[itex]\check{x}[/itex]. U and L need to be determined using a geometric interpretation of the new transformed coordinates. U should 0 but I need some direction on how to determine L.

Ideally I think I need to draw the new coordinate system on x,y which I am not good at. Any help is much appreciated.
 
If this is a line integral can't you parameterize it and then using the parametrized equations to determine the upper and lower limits.



If you're trying to plot the coordinate lines to get an understanding of the mapping then perhaps MATLAB (or Freemat) could do that given your equations and iterating them where you vary the beta for each plot line holding x and then y constant for each line.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Do you mean that I integrate in (x,y) but over the curve [itex]\check{y}[/itex]?
 

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