Getting a Vaccination vs Having Recovered from Covid -- Are they equivalent?

  • Thread starter Phil Core
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Summary:
Is getting vaccinated vs actually having had the Covid virus with symptoms considered to be better in preventing future infections?
There is a bias in the medical community toward getting vaccinated even if you have had Covid with symptoms. Example - https://health.clevelandclinic.org/when-should-you-get-vaccinated-if-youve-had-covid-19/

I am unaware of any hard science - incremental analysis - that would conclude that getting vaccinated is better than having Covid with symptoms for the prevention of near term infection.

I would think that antibodies produced by actual initial Covid infection would be more robust than antibodies induced by vaccines that only address a fraction of the structure of the Covid virus.

Many people who had Covid and then got vaccinated reported increased side effects.

I find the medical communities response to getting vaccinated after already having Covid caviler.

"The next time you encounter the pathogen, these responses will kick in faster and stronger, because your immune system is already primed to recognise and respond to it. This is why people who have already recovered from COVID-19 may experience more of these mild reactions. They are nothing to be alarmed by, and merely show that the body remembers the virus and is mounting an effective response to it. This is similar to receiving a second dose of the vaccine; in both cases, your body was already primed to recognise the antigen either by prior infection or the first dose.


Indeed, two small studies recently suggested that people who’ve previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2 MIGHT only need a single dose of an mRNA vaccine, as they begin producing large amounts of antibodies against the virus following their first dose – although follow-up studies are needed to confirm that these immune responses were maintained over time." https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/w...more-common-people-whove-already-had-covid-19
 

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  • #2
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The difference you haven’t considered is that people who contract COVID may have long lasting after effects that vaccinated people don’t have.

In some documented cases COVID people have had their post COVID symptoms disappear after getting vaccinated. However, the jury is out as to why people suffer post COVID symptoms whether it’s due to the virus still lingering in the body or from some other reason.
 
  • #3
atyy
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Indeed, two small studies recently suggested that people who’ve previously been infected with SARS-CoV-2 MIGHT only need a single dose of an mRNA vaccine, as they begin producing large amounts of antibodies against the virus following their first dose – although follow-up studies are needed to confirm that these immune responses were maintained over time." https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/w...more-common-people-whove-already-had-covid-19
In Singapore, the current recommendation is for people who have had COVID to receive only a single dose of vaccine.
https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination
"Can persons with prior COVID-19 infection be vaccinated?
Recovered persons who have not completed COVID-19 vaccination may receive a single dose of vaccine. This applies to recovered persons who are unvaccinated and recovered persons who had received one dose of vaccine before being infected. There is evidence shown that a single dose of vaccine can further boost the immunity against COVID-19 in persons who have recovered from a COVID-19 infection.
Recovered persons should discuss with their doctors on when to receive the vaccine. The general recommendation is to wait at least 6 months from the date of infection before receiving the vaccine dose.
No routine testing by PCR or serology is required before getting COVID-19 vaccination to determine eligibility for vaccination."

However, the current recommendation in other places (eg. the USA) for the usual vaccination is also consistent with evidence.
https://www.fda.gov/emergency-prepa...h-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions
"Q: Can people who have already had COVID-19 get the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine?
A: Among all study participants, 3% had evidence of infection prior to vaccination, and among participants with evidence of infection prior to vaccination, more confirmed COVID-19 cases occurred in the placebo group compared with the vaccine group. While relatively few confirmed COVID-19 cases occurred overall among participants with evidence of infection prior to vaccination, available data suggest that previously infected individuals can be at risk of COVID-19 (i.e., reinfection) and could benefit from vaccination."
 
  • #4
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Covid infection - elicits antibody response - Antibody I
Vaccination - elicits antibody response - Antibody V

What is the difference Antibody I vs Antibody V ?

With respect to

1. virility - speed and effectiveness of response
2. duration - how long are the Antibodies "effective".
3. flexibility - ability to address mutations
 
  • #5
jim mcnamara
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@Phil Core
Hi - where did those terms come from in the post above? Please post a link. Thanks.
For:
2. And you presuppose that after antibodies wane, then there is no protection. Think T-cells, memory B-cells, for example.

Plus I'm not sure what Antibody I is supposed to be, same with antibody V. So I can't answer your question. Or maybe they are hypothetical....
 
  • #6
Ygggdrasil
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Summary:: Is getting vaccinated vs actually having had the Covid virus with symptoms considered to be better in preventing future infections?

There is a bias in the medical community toward getting vaccinated even if you have had Covid with symptoms. Example - https://health.clevelandclinic.org/when-should-you-get-vaccinated-if-youve-had-covid-19/

I am unaware of any hard science - incremental analysis - that would conclude that getting vaccinated is better than having Covid with symptoms for the prevention of near term infection.

I would think that antibodies produced by actual initial Covid infection would be more robust than antibodies induced by vaccines that only address a fraction of the structure of the Covid virus.

Many people who had Covid and then got vaccinated reported increased side effects.

I find the medical communities response to getting vaccinated after already having Covid caviler.

There are reasons to think that vaccines would elicit a stronger and more durable immune response than viral infection. For example, viruses have evolved to try to minimize the host's immune response to itself while vaccines are designed to stimulate robust immune responses. You are correct that vaccines elicit antibodies only to the spike protein while natural infection induces antibodies against other proteins, though it is mainly antibodies against the spike protein that are responsible for neutralizing viruses (Huang et al. 2020).

A study in the UK estimated the risk of re-infection after an initial COVID-19 infection, and found that prior infection confers ~ 84% protection against any re-infection, and a 93% protection against symptomatic infections (Hall et al. 2021). A study in Denmark similarly found an 80% protection against re-infection, though this protection was less effective in those aged >65 (47%) (Hansen et al. 2021). These levels of protection are somewhat lower than the ~90% protection observed for the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna), though they are comparable or higher than the protection observed with the adenoviral vectored vaccines (Johnson & Johnson and Oxford-AstraZeneca) (see data compiled at https://alsnhll.github.io/covid19_vaccine_comparison.html). Notably, the clinical trial data for the Pfizer mRNA vaccine showed no drop in efficiency in older individuals (95% effective in age >65 vs 95% overall) (Polack et al. 2020) and the Moderna vaccine showed only a small drop in efficacy (86% effective in age >65 vs 94% overall) (Baden et al. 2021).

We do know that immunity to other coronaviruses is fairly short lived (~ 1 year) (Edrige et al. 2020). One might hypothesize that vaccinating those previously exposed to the coronavirus would help stimulate the production of memory B and T cells that would make the immune response much more durable and longer lasting. In my opinion (as not a medical professional), it's likely that a second dose of the vaccine would not be necessary for those who were previously exposed. However, administering the second dose would not cause harm whereas skipping the second dose for someone who thought they were previously exposed (but was not) could potentially cause greater harm.
 
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  • #7
Astronuc
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Summary:: Is getting vaccinated vs actually having had the Covid virus with symptoms considered to be better in preventing future infections?

I am unaware of any hard science - incremental analysis - that would conclude that getting vaccinated is better than having Covid with symptoms for the prevention of near term infection.
Did one look for studies/evidence?

As of about the end of April, there were at least 1,108,960 hospitalizations (Carlson, 37 states) and 579,634 deaths (NY Times) from COVID-19. There were 32,632,099 positive cases of COVID-19 (NY Times).
Today the numbers are: 32,880,674 positive cases, 583,990 deaths. 1,119,219 (Carlson)
Hospitalizations are difficult to count since some states do not report hospitalizations due to COVID-19.
Carlson = https://carlsonschool.umn.edu/mili-misrc-covid19-tracking-project
NY Times = https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html

I would think that antibodies produced by actual initial Covid infection would be more robust than antibodies induced by vaccines that only address a fraction of the structure of the Covid virus.
Evidence?

Many people who had Covid and then got vaccinated reported increased side effects.
Please substantiate this claim.

I find the medical communities response to getting vaccinated after already having Covid caviler.
On what basis?

I have heard reports that those with lingering symptoms of a COVID-19 infection are benefitting from the vaccine. Scientists are currently studying the population of long-haul COVID-19 patients (long haulers).

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid
How is the vaccine helping some long-haulers?

As many as 30 to 40% of those who get the vaccine have reported improvements to their symptoms. “I’ve heard from people who say they no longer have ‘brain fog,’ their gastrointestinal problems have gone away, or they stopped suffering from the shortness of breath they’ve been living with since being diagnosed with COVID-19,” says Iwasaki.

Given the number of studies, it doesn't seem the medical community is acting in a cavalier manner, but rather from an informed understanding.

April 23, 2021, Study: Those Who Recovered From COVID-19 May Receive Maximal Immunity From One Vaccine Dose
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/...eceive-maximal-immunity-from-one-vaccine-dose

March 9, 2021, Patients Recovered from COVID-19 May Require Just One Dose of mRNA Vaccine
https://nyulangone.org/news/patients-recovered-covid-19-may-require-just-one-dose-mrna-vaccine

April 15, 2021, Penn Study Suggests Those Who Had COVID-19 May Only Need One Vaccine Dose
https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/n...ho-had-covid19-may-only-need-one-vaccine-dose

April 13, 2021, Immune response to vaccination after COVID-19
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-response-vaccination-after-covid-19

15 Apr 2021, Distinct antibody and memory B cell responses in SARS-CoV-2 naïve and recovered individuals following mRNA vaccination
https://immunology.sciencemag.org/content/6/58/eabi6950
 
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