# Good suggestions to protect your personal identity

They can reject or accept any kind of payment they want. If they want to accept only credit cards with numbers ending in "3", that's OK. If they want to accept pennies, dimes, and Susan B. Anthony dollars (but not dollar bills), that's also legal. If they choose to accept beaver pelts, that's OK.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender#United_States

Legal tender or forced tender is an offered payment that, by law, cannot be refused in settlement of a debt, and have the debt remain in force.[1] Currency is the most common form of legal tender.

In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (where the obligation to pay may arise at the same time as the offer of payment). For example vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote. Shopkeepers can reject large banknotes — this is covered by the legal concept known as invitation to treat. However, restaurants that do not collect payment until after a meal is served would have to accept that legal tender for the debt incurred in purchasing the meal.

As I said, the only difference between that and our debit cards is that yours don't have the number printed on them. As I said, I agree that that is a good idea.
Well, as I said before, it's not, reading that page of dangers.

If even if the number was printed on it, some things could not happen. They then had to steal that pass, that pass must be physically praesent to use the number.

But again, you haven't responded at all to the issue of credit. Do people not use credit in your country?
Some do for some international things, most don't. Those who do tend to keep that card at home since they only need it on line and don't want people to see it.

Yes, if someone gets ahold of your info and gets into your bank account, you probably can't get the money back. That's one way credit cards are superior.
Okay, assume that by some way some one gets hold of your personal identification number (PIN).

A: it is of no use to them unless they have the card.
B: it's the same thing as if 'someone got hold of the password of your gmail account, the idea is to not give people that number, memorize it, swallow the paper.

Most banks don't give it back if they used the number no, if you give people that number, it's your own risk they claim. Just like most sites will not go out and fix all things for you if you were stupid enough to give some one your password.

It sounds like you are saying your device gives you a unique number for every online transaction. That's pretty secure and many credit card companies will provide such a thing, but it is a little cumbersome.
Well, unique public number yes.

How it works is:

private: PIN, the card
public: some code they give you

input all three into the machine

return the output code

gets compared, if it matches the details at the bank, you're set.

The site never knew the private details.

Monique
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
But again, you haven't responded at all to the issue of credit. Do people not use credit in your country?
People don't use credit cards here. In the event that you don't have enough balance, you ask a bank for extra credit (which is a rare thing to do).

The credit cards that I own (and only use abroad, when maestro is not accepted) do have a personal secret pin number attached. To increase security you will be required to use that pin number, also for online transactions.

I think it is unbelievable that US debit cards would have the personal pin printed upon the card, what kind of a security is that?

Gold Member
I think it is unbelievable that US debit cards would have the personal pin printed upon the card, what kind of a security is that?
Monique,

To clarify, any US debit card that I am aware of does NOT have a personal pin printed on it, however, there is a security code, that you usually must provide when making online or over the phone transactions. I personally have a combination credit/debit master card, and always make "credit transactions" only when out and about. It was compromised by someone about a year ago. The thief used it to charge game software from Warcraft Inc, under Blizzard.com. My bank has since refused any transactions with Blizzard.com because of it. I eventually got the money back, after filing a police report. Because the thieves charged the card outside of the country, they were never caught.

On the bright side, if you charge online purchases and use American Express, and the card is ever compromised, you just file a report with them, and they credit your account right away, and second, if you are unsatisfied with a purchase, and return it and are not reimbursed, they will credit you account and settle the claim with the business that would not give you a refund. Needless to say, I always use Amex if possible when making online purchases.

Rhody...

Kaj said:
It's not that hard to remember an 8 or 4 digit code by the way, you remember your phone number don't you?
Well I was referring to other people. My grandmother for instance would probably forget her PIN daily without having it written down somewhere. People here seem to really detest having any form of security that makes them have to think or remember anything or that inconveniences them in any way. Working as a security guard I have consistently found security doors left ajar, jammed, the bolt taped down, and even whole locks taken apart or simply broken. And these people pay to have this security.

People don't use credit cards here. In the event that you don't have enough balance, you ask a bank for extra credit (which is a rare thing to do).

The credit cards that I own (and only use abroad, when maestro is not accepted) do have a personal secret pin number attached. To increase security you will be required to use that pin number, also for online transactions.

I think it is unbelievable that US debit cards would have the personal pin printed upon the card, what kind of a security is that?
I wish it were more like that here. I hate owing money. I own no credit cards and have never taken out a loan in my life. Unfortunately it is much more difficult to get by in the US if you haven't any sort of credit. The first time I looked into getting a cell phone they told me that they wanted a $500 deposit due to my lack of credit. When I did eventually get a cell they still wanted$200.

The number on a debit card is just a card number. You can use the card without having to scan it merely by typing in the number. The PIN is a separate number that you choose yourself and, in most circumstances, must input in order to use the card. Online or by phone you do not have to use your PIN but there is a secondary number on the back of the card that must be input as well and all of the personal information you give (name, address, phone number) must be accurate or bank verification will fail.

The system you and Kaj are describing sounds like it is probably more secure but the one here is not quite as lacking in security as it may sound so long as people are security conscious themselves.

Monique
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Good to know that they don't actually print the PIN on the card, there must've been a misunderstanding. Still, how secure is it if the card can be used with basic personal information that everyone has access to? When I use my debit card online, I have a calculator where I stick my card into and give my PIN number, it then displays a unique code that can be used only once. No personal information is transmitted.

Not too long ago I was able to 'break into' the PayPal account of my boyfriend. He had forgotten his password, the only thing I needed to do was to enter his bank account number and his telephone number and I was in! No e-mails were sent and I could set up a new password. I immediately terminated the service, that kind of security is ridiculous.

Well I was referring to other people. My grandmother for instance would probably forget her PIN daily without having it written down somewhere. People here seem to really detest having any form of security that makes them have to think or remember anything or that inconveniences them in any way. Working as a security guard I have consistently found security doors left ajar, jammed, the bolt taped down, and even whole locks taken apart or simply broken. And these people pay to have this security.
Ahaha, it's like paying for a diet coke.

I get the idea I suppose, but memorising four meagre digits isn't that hard right? My computer goes to lock mode if I don't touch it for 1:30 minutes and encrypts the session if it takes 15 minutes, so I have to enter a 16 character code a lot more often, which I also memorized. This is probably the point you realize my phobia for insecurity.

Also, what's with the patronizing pet name? Not that I dislike by the way.

Good to know that they don't actually print the PIN on the card, there must've been a misunderstanding. Still, how secure is it if the card can be used with basic personal information that everyone has access to? When I use my debit card online, I have a calculator where I stick my card into and give my PIN number, it then displays a unique code that can be used only once. No personal information is transmitted.

Not too long ago I was able to 'break into' the PayPal account of my boyfriend. He had forgotten his password, the only thing I needed to do was to enter his bank account number and his telephone number and I was in! No e-mails were sent and I could set up a new password. I immediately terminated the service, that kind of security is ridiculous.
It seems that here, instead of coming up with a new and more secure system, they have merely complicated the the existing one. So far I have never had any issues with the security of my personal information (save the one the banks says happened but gave me no information regarding it). Hacker friends have made me rather paranoid though. It sort of weirded me out when the taxi company started saving my phone number and the locations where I had asked for pick up. And they tell me that their system requires that they keep said information. :grumpy:

Ahaha, it's like paying for a diet coke.

I get the idea I suppose, but memorising four meagre digits isn't that hard right? My computer goes to lock mode if I don't touch it for 1:30 minutes and encrypts the session if it takes 15 minutes, so I have to enter a 16 character code a lot more often, which I also memorized. This is probably the point you realize my phobia for insecurity.

Also, what's with the patronizing pet name? Not that I dislike by the way.
I have not had any issue myself. In fact the PIN I have currently is the one that was randomly generated for my new card after the last one expired. I meant to create a new one but then wondered what the point was after I memorized the one they gave me. Since it is randomly generated it is no less secure than what ever I could come up with.

Sorry if "Kaj" seems patronizing. It is just quick and easy to type when quoting via cut and paste. Feel free to call me "Ape" or what ever. :-)

Sorry if "Kaj" seems patronizing. It is just quick and easy to type when quoting via cut and paste. Feel free to call me "Ape" or what ever. :-)
Oh, as I said, I don't really mind, quite the reverse actually.

Also, maybe this is needless, but I guess 'Kai' would be more appropriate within the rules of Finnish phonology. /i/ > /j/ in intervocalic contexts.

Gold Member
Hey guys,
I found an interesting Wiki on Card Security Codes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_Security_Code
Yeah, and after reading it it appears to the the Security Codes can be compromised via Phishing scams. To me, the one time secure number tied to (Citibank, Bank of America, or Discover card's) the expiration date, amount, vendor is the way to go (see post #4) above.

It may be inconvenient, take a bit of time, but I would definitely consider it for making purchases out of the continental US. We visited Jamaica a few years back, bought one expensive item, and were hounded by the locals for months saying they were not paid in full by the credit card company, using the method described above would have laid their claims in the dust.

Rhody...

Monique
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Ahh, you guys were talking about that printed code. Any time you use your credit card in public, people with an ill mind are able to copy that code right? During online transactions I am required to enter a personal pin number and many countries (mainly European?) are now requiring a PIN number to be entered with credit card transactions (a signature won't do).

edit, some more info: apparently the "dumb" credit cards (without chips) should still be accepted:
http://www.elliott.org/blog/two-important-warnings-for-americans-using-their-credit-cards-in-europe"
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