Graphical solution of cubic with real roots

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the graphical solution of cubic equations with real roots, specifically through the intersection of conic sections (circles, parabolas, hyperbolas). Participants explore historical methods, contemporary relevance, and the mathematical framework surrounding these solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the existence of a general graphical solution for cubic equations involving conic sections, expressing frustration at the lack of comprehensive resources.
  • Another participant references Omar Khayyam's historical contributions to solving cubic equations through conic intersections, noting that his methods may not apply universally to all cubics.
  • A different participant expresses uncertainty about whether Khayyam's work addressed all cubics or only those with one real root, while also mentioning a more recent solution by R.T. Running that extends quartic solutions to cubics.
  • One participant shares their personal interest in developing a general algebraic theory for cubics, emphasizing the cyclic system they are exploring, which relates to the graphical solutions of cubic equations.
  • Another participant raises a point about the necessity of finding at least one real root in odd-degree polynomials and suggests that this leads to simpler quadratic solutions, although they express confusion about the cyclic system mentioned.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the historical context and applicability of Khayyam's methods, with some uncertainty about the completeness of existing solutions for all cubic equations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of graphical solutions and their generalization.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of the types of cubic equations being considered, as well as the historical context of the mathematical contributions mentioned. The cyclic system's implications are not fully clarified.

edgo
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Does anyone know whether the graphical solution of cubic equations with real roots by means of intersecting a circle and a parabola or hyperbola (or just a parabola and hyperbola) is known or not? That solution has to give the equations for the circles, parabolas and hyperbolas involved and not only for a special case. I have been surfing around for weeks now and got 1 hit: a 2-page document in the JSTOR library, but that is almost for sure not the one that I am looking for as it is more likely to be a 20 page document.

A "yes" answer will do, a "no" answer will do, the "I don't know" answer is the one I already have. So, are there good detectives among all those good mathematicians here?
 
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Yes, in fact what you just said is a very famous achievement by Omar Khayyam. Best known worldwide for his poetry, he was also a mathematician: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khayyám#Mathematician

His method for solving cubic equations by intersecting a conic section with a circle (see some examples with a parabola worked out on a calculator[4]). Although his approach at achieving this had earlier been attempted by Menaechmus, Mahavira Acharya and others, Khayyám provided a generalization extending it to all cubics. In addition he discovered the binomial expansion. His method for solving quadratic equations are also similar to what is used today.
 
graphical solution of the cubic with real roots

Thanks Gib Z. I followed your link. I'm not sure whether Omar Khayyam solved that problem for all cubics or only for those with one real root. Wikipedia also leads to an article on Khayyam having found the generalization for all cubics with one real root, as it had been done before only for specific cubics. And believe it or not, within 1 hour after I posted my thread I tried for the 7.000.001st time on google and had a full hit in a minute. On the keyword as the title of this thread. You can't understand these things, maybe somebody had just triggered that document with the keyword quartic. Anyhow, Mr R.T. Running of the University of Michigan found the solution in 1943 (it's also a JSTOR document). He started with quartics and extended his solution to cubics by upgrading cubic polynomials to quartic polynomials. So in a way he was still solving quartics.

I still am interested in solutions within the set of cubics. In a way I am not very interested in the answer that such solutions give as I found a solution years ago and I am convinced that they all are basically the same: intersecting conics. It's the background I am interested in as it might give "fresh blood" to my work, which is trying to come to some sort of general algebraic theory on the cubics.
It was not my goal to find a graphical solution for the cubic with 3 real roots or,what is the same, finding an algebraic geometric solution for the trisection of an angle. My answer was just included in the basis of the theorie: the general solution of the cyclic system
[itex]p{x_1}^2+qx_1+r=x_2[/itex]
[itex]p{x_2}^2+qx_2+r=x_3[/itex]
[itex]p{x_3}^2+qx_3+r=x_1[/itex]

for any [itex]V = x^3+ax^2+bx+c=0[/itex] with no pair of equal roots.

As you see, that is the equation for the parabola [itex]y=px^2+qx+r[/itex]
Finding the circle that is passing through the points [itex]({x_j},{x_i})[/itex]
was coming for free. The cyclic system is the 20 pages I spoke of.
How did somebody else do it? That question is still open as far as I am concerned.
 
Sorry It's 12:15pm here, the reason I am not at school is because I have a terrible cold and a headache, so please bear with me.

I'm not sure whether Omar Khayyam solved that problem for all cubics or only for those with one real root.
.

Unless you wish to find the solution of a cubic with complex coefficients, which I don't think you do, then that doesn't matter. All polynomials of odd degree and real coefficients will have at least 1 real root. As long as you find 1 root, you can do polynomial division, it becomes a quadratic and that's easy to solve.

For the second part of your question, with the cyclic system's and stuff..I have no idea what exactly you are asking :(
 

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