Gravitational acceleration of relativistic objects.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gravitational acceleration of relativistic objects, particularly focusing on how to calculate this acceleration for an object, such as an alpha particle, approaching a massive body like a black hole. The conversation touches on the limitations of Newtonian physics in this context and explores the implications of general relativity (GR).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to calculate the gravitational acceleration of a relativistic object from the viewpoint of an external observer, noting that Newtonian formulas are inadequate as they would suggest superluminal speeds.
  • Another participant references the geodesic equations in general relativity, suggesting that these equations, which involve the Christoffel symbols and curvature terms, are essential for understanding the motion of a freely falling body near a black hole.
  • A participant challenges the initial claim about the "obvious" nature of the Newtonian limitations, arguing that as an object's speed approaches the speed of light, its mass increases, which would affect its acceleration and prevent it from exceeding the speed of light.
  • There is a reiteration of the argument that in Newtonian theory, the force is proportional to mass, implying that acceleration could remain unaffected by mass increase.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of relativistic mass and the applicability of Newtonian physics in this scenario. There is no consensus on how to reconcile these perspectives or on the validity of the initial claims regarding gravitational acceleration.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of mass in relativistic contexts and the interpretation of gravitational effects near massive objects, which remain unresolved.

jwes44
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If you have an object (e.g. an alpha particle) traveling at nearly the speed of light towards another massive object (e.g. a black hole) from a large distance, how would you calculate the gravitational acceleration on that object from the viewpoint of an external observer? Obviously, the Newtonian formula does not work as it would have the object exceed the speed of light before it reached the event horizon.
 
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In GR, the equations of motion of a freely falling body are the geodesic equations [tex]\frac{d^2 x^\alpha}{d\tau^2} + \Gamma^\alpha_{\beta\gamma} \frac{dx^\beta}{d\tau}\frac{dx^\gamma}{d\tau}=0,[/tex] where [itex]x^\alpha[/itex] is the position 4-vector of the particle and [itex]\Gamma^\alpha_{\beta\gamma}[/itex] is the Christoffel symbol, which is pretty easily derived from the metric and contains the curvature terms. There's a book by Taylor & Wheeler that does a really good job of solving the equations for a body falling into a black hole and then actually telling you what the interpretations are.
 
jwes44 said:
If you have an object (e.g. an alpha particle) traveling at nearly the speed of light towards another massive object (e.g. a black hole) from a large distance, how would you calculate the gravitational acceleration on that object from the viewpoint of an external observer? Obviously, the Newtonian formula does not work as it would have the object exceed the speed of light before it reached the event horizon.
How do you arrive at that "obvious" conclusion? As the object's speed increases toward c, its mass also increases, so that the acceleration, for the same force, is decreases. I don't see how it could possibly accelerate past the speed of light if its mass is increasing without bound at the same time.
 
HallsofIvy said:
How do you arrive at that "obvious" conclusion? As the object's speed increases toward c, its mass also increases, so that the acceleration, for the same force, is decreases. I don't see how it could possibly accelerate past the speed of light if its mass is increasing without bound at the same time.

In Newtonian theory, the force is proportional to the mass so the acceleration is unaffected by the increase in mass.
 

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