Gravitational Attraction: Could Dark Matter be Explained?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of gravitational attraction and the potential explanations for dark matter, including modifications to the gravitational force law. Participants explore various theories and models, including the possibility of altering the exponent in the gravitational formula and alternative theories like MOND.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that dark matter effects could be explained by modifying the gravitational attraction formula to F = GMm/d^x with x being slightly less than 2.
  • Another participant counters that this modification does not match observations, indicating it has been previously checked.
  • A different participant expresses skepticism about the ongoing debate regarding dark matter, asserting its existence while questioning what it actually is.
  • Questions arise about the derivation of the value of x as 2, with one participant stating it is a measured quantity.
  • Alternative theories to dark matter are discussed, particularly MOND, which modifies the gravitational force law and has had success in explaining galactic rotation curves, though it faces criticism for being unscientific and arbitrary.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of MOND's acceleration cut-off, questioning its plausibility in various astrophysical contexts.
  • One participant speculates that the MOND acceleration term might exist without an acceleration cut-off, suggesting it could be observable in the solar system or laboratory settings.
  • Another participant draws a connection between dark matter and the Higgs boson, noting the thematic link of "missing mass" in both discussions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of dark matter and the validity of alternative theories like MOND.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the implications of modifying gravitational laws and the conditions under which alternative theories may apply. There are unresolved questions regarding the applicability of MOND in various astrophysical scenarios and the potential for experimental verification of its effects.

mviswanathan
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Could the effect of "Dark Matter" be explained if in the formaul for Gravitational attraction:
F = GMm/d^x
Where x is considered 2 is wee bit less (may be 1.98 or some thing)
 
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No. This is one of the first things that was checked, and it doesn't match observations.
 
I have difficulty [or disappointment] believing this is still in doubt, mvis, too many scientists have worked too long and hard to miss on this one. Dark matter is definitely out there. The only question is, what it is.
 
Well, Thanks.
Is there is any derivation to arrive at the value of x as 2?
 
It's a measured quantity.
 
Thanks again.
It is one of the many strange things that is equal to integer 2
 
There are alternative theories to Dark Matter which involve modification to the gravitational force law.

The most well-known of these is MOND (Modified Newtonian Dynamics), which initially had spectacularly great success with accounting for galactic rotation curves, but there are various other situations where MOND opponents claim that dark matter is a better explanation. MOND is however theoretically somewhat unscientific and arbitrary, and various attempts have been made to produce a more theoretically consistent equivalent, such as TeVeS or MOG/STVG. Although these theories are more consistent, the modifications are so far somewhat arbitrary and not very appealing compared with the simplicity of GR.

The main practical feature of MOND and of these other theories is that they all effectively give an extra acceleration which instead of being proportional to M/r^2 is proportional to the square root of that, \sqrt{M}/r.

Although this extra term is very weak and only has a significant effect on galactic scales, the MOND theory postulates that it is somehow cut off below certain absolute accelerations, presumably simply because otherwise this effect could in theory be detectable within the solar system. (It's actually on a similar scale to the well-known Pioneer Anomaly, but doesn't match it particularly convincingly). At least MOG does away with the concept of "absolute" acceleration, effectively replacing this with a Machian concept of acceleration "relative to the fixed stars".

This idea of different effects occurring below some limit acceleration sound very implausible to me, because for example even if a star is accelerating only weakly overall, its component particles are all subject to huge accelerations due to its own gravity. Similarly, what about a double star system (which is very common) or a star and its planets? In the fringes of a galaxy, these would be accelerating around one another at far more than the MOND threshold acceleration, yet somehow MOND is expected to apply if the overall system is accelerating below the threshold limit.

However, the fit between MOND predictions and the measured properties of galactic rotation curves are very impressive.

I personally suspect that one possible explanation is that the MOND acceleration term does occur in nature, but that there is no acceleration cut-off. Instead, this effect could be present even in the weak case, and could be observed within the solar system and possibly even in the laboratory, but in the absence of experiments designed specifically to test for it, it has been ignored or treated as a component of systematic error, because it varies more weakly with r than the standard force. (I'm aware of experiments to search for variation of the force with higher powers of 1/r, but not with lower powers of 1/r than the standard 1/r2. I'm also aware that attempts to measure G in the laboratory have been giving surprisingly variable results. If anyone knows of any experiment which specifically rules out this MOND effect at the laboratory level, I'd be very interested to hear about it).
 
One thing that makes me go hmmmmmmm...

Is that all of the dark matter stuff has something to do with missing mass, whereas the Higgs boson (the one remaining missing particle of the standard model) has something also to do with mass. All this is start smell like ether...
 

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