Gravity assist and increasing orbital energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of increasing orbital energy in elliptical orbits, specifically focusing on the timing of firing thrusters at perigee versus apogee. Participants explore the implications of kinetic energy changes and the concept of gravity assist in relation to the Oberth effect.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why firing thrusters at perigee imparts more energy than at apogee, despite the same change in velocity (Δv).
  • Another participant explains that the increase in kinetic energy is greater at higher velocities, as the energy increase includes a term that multiplies the current velocity by the change in velocity.
  • There is a clarification regarding the terminology, with one participant suggesting that the discussion relates to gravity assist, while another points out that it is more accurately described as the Oberth effect.
  • Participants express appreciation for corrections and clarifications regarding the concepts discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mechanics of energy increase at perigee versus apogee but have differing views on the terminology used, particularly regarding the distinction between gravity assist and the Oberth effect. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the appropriateness of the thread title.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of gravity assist and the Oberth effect, as well as the implications of firing thrusters at different points in an orbit.

Physgeek64
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Hi, so whilst doing some reading I came across a section that said the most efficient way to increase your orbital energy when in an elliptical orbit is to fire your 'boosters' at perigee. I understand that the satellite is moving faster, but why should this mean that more energy is imparted to the satellite than when fired at apogee, assuming the change in the velocity is the same in both cases? It makes intuitive sense, but not logical sense (or at least not to me)

Many thanks :)
 
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Consider the kinetic energy increase from Δv => 1/2 m (v + Δv)2 = 1/2 m (v2 + 2 v Δv + Δv2). Note that the energy increase includes the term v Δv, so a higher v with the same Δv means a higher increase in energy.
 
rcgldr said:
Consider the kinetic energy increase from Δv => 1/2 m (v + Δv)2 = 1/2 m (v2 + 2 v Δv + Δv2). Note that the energy increase includes the term v Δv, so a higher v with the same Δv means a higher increase in energy.

You, my friend, are a star
 
Physgeek64 said:
Hi, so whilst doing some reading I came across a section that said the most efficient way to increase your orbital energy when in an elliptical orbit is to fire your 'boosters' at perigee. I understand that the satellite is moving faster, but why should this mean that more energy is imparted to the satellite than when fired at apogee, assuming the change in the velocity is the same in both cases? It makes intuitive sense, but not logical sense (or at least not to me)

Many thanks :)
Just curious -- you mention Gravity Assist in your thread title, but not in your post. Should I update the title? Thanks. :smile:
 
berkeman said:
Just curious -- you mention Gravity Assist in your thread title, but not in your post. Should I update the title? Thanks. :smile:

Well I assumed this is a form of gravity assist since you need the gravity to speed up your orbit at perigee to then be able to fire your thrusters to increase your orbital energy, more so than at perigee. But if you don't feel the title is fitting, then please feel free :)
 
Physgeek64 said:
Well I assumed this is a form of gravity assist since you need the gravity to speed up your orbit at perigee to then be able to fire your thrusters to increase your orbital energy, more so than at perigee. But if you don't feel the title is fitting, then please feel free :)
What you have described is the Oberth effect. More commonly, "gravity assist" refers to a slingshot maneuver where a craft passes closely behind a planet or moon to gain speed or closely ahead to dump speed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist
 
jbriggs444 said:
What you have described is the Oberth effect. More commonly, "gravity assist" refers to a slingshot maneuver where a craft passes closely behind a planet or moon to gain speed or closely ahead to dump speed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist

Thanks for the correction :)
 

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