Gravity exerted by a fast moving object versus stationary object?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gravitational effects of a moving object compared to a stationary one, particularly in the context of relativistic mass and gravitational fields. Participants explore theoretical implications, definitions of gravitational strength, and specific examples such as the perihelion precession of Mercury.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant posits that a 2kg stationary mass and a 1kg mass moving at relativistic speeds (0.866C) exert the same gravitational force due to their equivalent relativistic mass, but questions arise regarding the effects of time dilation on gravity.
  • Another participant argues that the gravitational field of a moving mass is not spherically symmetric and suggests that it generates "more gravity" than a stationary mass, referencing a specific paper that quantifies this effect.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the definition of "more gravity" and note that different approaches yield varying results regarding the gravitational influence of moving objects.
  • One participant introduces the perihelion precession of Mercury as a potential proof that gravity increases for moving objects, suggesting that increased velocity leads to increased mass and gravitational effects.
  • Another participant cautions against simplistic interpretations of the perihelion precession, emphasizing that the mathematics involved does not support the idea that increased velocity directly correlates with increased gravitational influence.
  • There is a discussion about the mathematical treatment of gravitational and inertial mass, with one participant arguing that substituting relativistic mass into Newton's equations does not yield a straightforward conclusion about gravitational effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the gravitational effects of moving versus stationary masses, with no consensus reached on the definitions or implications of "more gravity." The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in definitions and assumptions regarding gravitational mass and relativistic effects, as well as the complexity of gravitational interactions in relativistic contexts. The discussion also touches on the mathematical intricacies involved in modeling gravitational phenomena.

  • #61
jartsa said:
When approaching:
Objects gain momentum towards each other.

When the light has disappeared:

The momentum of the black hole =
The momentum of the black hole at time t + the momentum of the light at time t
(t can be chosen freely)

Once again, you are using a coordinate chart in which you can't assume that conservation of momentum works. Unless you have done the math, you can't just help yourself to the above statements. A coordinate chart in which a black hole is moving does *not* work like a standard inertial frame in SR, nor does it work like standard Schwarzschild coordinates in GR.

jartsa said:
Velocity change of the black hole = momentum change / mass

Even if the coordinates you are using did work like standard coordinates, this would not be true; relativistic momentum is not mass times velocity. You really need to do some math on this problem.
 
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  • #62
Quote by dipole
I think "relativistic mass" is a concept which should be avoided. It's better to think in terms of energy and to understand that energy is a source of gravitation, so an object moving with a lot of kinetic energy is going to have a stronger gravitational field.

ok on the first part, but the rest depends on your definition of gravity; such an increase in KE is not sourced from the Einstein stress energy momentum tensor...the source of gravity as usually defined...which is in the rest frame of the mass.

Hmmm... a faster moving object, with more KE, say going past a large gravitating source such as a planet, would be deflected LESS than a similar object with lower velocity...?

Anyway, if the objects were two space ships, each would measure the planet as having the different KE relative to them...
 

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