Gravity waves and density perturbations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between gravity waves and density perturbations, particularly focusing on their behavior during the inflationary period and the subsequent radiation era. Participants explore the dynamics of these perturbations as they re-enter the horizon and their implications for the photon-baryon plasma.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion regarding the differences between gravity waves and density perturbations, particularly in the context of their re-entry and effects on the photon-baryon plasma.
  • One participant explains that density perturbations relate to matter and radiation density, while gravity waves pertain to the curvature of space-time, noting that gravity waves do not significantly interact with matter due to the nature of plasmas.
  • Another participant questions the correlation between acoustic waves from inflation and their behavior upon re-entering the horizon, seeking to understand if they should be viewed as a continuum.
  • Concerns are raised about the calculation of the wavelength of perturbations, specifically whether fluctuations during the radiation era contribute to the total wavelength.
  • One participant inquires about the fate of subhorizon fluctuations when they re-enter the horizon, particularly regarding the interaction of photons and baryons in potential wells created by these perturbations.
  • It is noted that perturbations re-enter the horizon continuously, even before the matter era begins, depending on their wavelengths.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of understanding and confusion regarding the concepts discussed, with no clear consensus on the relationships and implications of gravity waves and density perturbations. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of terms like "wavelength" and "oscillation," as well as the unresolved nature of how perturbations evolve while outside the horizon.

Discman
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I am totally confused. What is concerning the anisotropy the difference between re-entering gravity waves and re-entering density perturbations and more important for me what is then happening in the photon-baryon plasma between end of inflation and these re-enterings.
 
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Density perturbations are perturbations in the density of matter and radiation. Gravity waves are perturbations in the curvature of space-time. The two are related, but not completely: because plasmas do not support twisting forces, gravity waves that lead to twisting forces don't interact with matter very much.

By large, before the perturbations re-enter the horizon, they are frozen* by the rapid expansion and speed of light limitation. This means that there is no oscillation and the relative density between different regions stays about the same as the universe expands. Once the expansion slows down to the point that the waves can oscillate, they do: normal matter starts falling into overdense regions and bounces back out.

* The perturbations aren't completely frozen, but they don't evolve very much.
 
Thank you so far for your explanation. But I still don't understand the correlation between the acoustic waves which are laid down by the inflation which are oscillating during the radiation era and the re-entering ± 50.000 years later. Must I see them as a continuum?
 
Discman said:
Thank you so far for your explanation. But I still don't understand the correlation between the acoustic waves which are laid down by the inflation which are oscillating during the radiation era and the re-entering ± 50.000 years later. Must I see them as a continuum?
They don't do any oscillation before re-entering the horizon. They do evolve somewhat, but not enough to oscillate.
 
Then still there is the problem that the length of the basic tone is calculated right from the end of inflation till the sound horizon and not calculated from the re-entering till the sound horizon. Is the fluctuation in the radiation era a part of the total wavelength?
 
Discman said:
Then still there is the problem that the length of the basic tone is calculated right from the end of inflation till the sound horizon and not calculated from the re-entering till the sound horizon. Is the fluctuation in the radiation era a part of the total wavelength?
The waves still expand (increase in wavelength) during the period while they're outside the horizon. They just don't oscillate.
 
Sorry, I'm not very clear. I am talking now about the subhorizon fluctuations and my question is what happens to them when perturbations re-enter the horizon. Does a great photon concentration from the radiation era now fall together with the baryons in a potential well of the re-entering perturbation?
 
Discman said:
Sorry, I'm not very clear. I am talking now about the subhorizon fluctuations and my question is what happens to them when perturbations re-enter the horizon. Does a great photon concentration from the radiation era now fall together with the baryons in a potential well of the re-entering perturbation?
If the density perturbation had a wavelength large enough that it didn't re-enter the horizon until after the radiation-dominated era, then yes, it will fall into the potential well only after the density perturbation re-enters the horizon.

As I understand it, before the emission of the CMB, when the universe was a plasma, the photons and baryons moved together as a single fluid as they interacted strongly.
 
Thank you. From your answer I now understand that perturbations were re-entering all the time, also before the beginning of the matter era.
 
  • #10
Yes, depending upon their wavelengths.
 

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