Great News: I paid > $3.00/gallon for gas today 1. Apr 17, 2007 Ivan Seeking Staff Emeritus From what I have read and observed, 3 is the magic number. At this price people begin to change their habbits. At$3.00 per gallon for diesel, the local biodiesel is competitive; it sells for the same or less.

2. Apr 17, 2007

Bugger that its been over $3 out here for more than a year, with the sole exception of when oil prices crashed almost down to$50 a barrel. It was $3.50 last june, and its only slightly lower than that now. 3. Apr 17, 2007 mattmns Woah, franz, welcome back. We are getting close to that$3/gallon price, we are at $2.89/gallon at the station closest to my house, but I am sure it will be above$3 in a week or two. I should probably say that I don't drive, so I really don't worry too much about gas prices (maybe I should, I don't know).

4. Apr 17, 2007

Cyrus

I just saved a ton of money by switching to Geico.

5. Apr 17, 2007

wolram

Heck i would be able to buy another motorbike on the money
i saved if gas was only $3 over here. 6. Apr 17, 2007 Ki Man Lol.. i find it kinda funny that you guys are still considering$3 an extremely high price.. we'e had 3+ in california for a while, i was suprised we were able to get back down to $2 for a month or so, then it went back up 7. Apr 18, 2007 Integral Staff Emeritus So what are the prices running in So Cal now? We will be heading that way with our new gas guzzler next month. 8. Apr 18, 2007 Ivan Seeking Staff Emeritus Of course it could be that I was Just kidding. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={6BC27F17-FD85-4C28-A7AD-4227447B89FA} Last edited: Apr 18, 2007 9. Apr 18, 2007 Astronuc Staff Emeritus Our gasoline prices have been steadily increasing, sometimes by$0.01-0.03/day. I am not sure why, except demand is strong and supply is tight (although that seems somewhat contrived). Oil prices go down, but the price of gasoline goes up.

I did hear that the conversion of some refining units from heating oil to gasoline, or from winter blend to summer blend was delayed because of the extended cold.

Right now, the price of regular is between $2.90-$2.96 in our area, which is up about $0.06 from two days ago. 10. Apr 18, 2007 Art What's good about biodiesel? Most biodiesel in the US comes from corn and there is a net loss between the energy used in production and conversion, which comes largely from fossil fuels, and the energy derived. Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2007 11. Apr 18, 2007 brewnog I paid$7.74 a gallon this morning.

12. Apr 18, 2007

Art

An interesting article relating to bio-fuels
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6563255.stm
These green environmentalists are ruining the environment :tongue2:

13. Apr 18, 2007

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
You are confusing ethanol with biodiesel. Biodiesel is made from many different seed stock and yields about a net 60% energy gain - ie every one-hundred gallons made require about forty gallons worth of energy for cultivation and processing. Of course biodiesel is made from from canola, mustard, rape, palm, corn, cotton, hemp, soybean, hazelnut, euphorbia, sesame, sunflower, cotton, cocoa, peanuts, avacado, coconuts, olives..., and best of all, algae, so the processing needs can vary depending on the stock. Some are certainly far better than others. Corn yields about 18 gallons per acre-year. Algae can produce as much as 20,000 gallons per acre year.

The aquatic species program studied algae for biodiesel production for almost twenty years. It was determined that this would be a competitive option when fuel prices are about a dollar per gallon cheaper than it is today.

Last edited: Apr 18, 2007
14. Apr 18, 2007

Quaoar

Gas prices aren't that bad. The only reason why people complain so much is because they are the only product that advertises their prices with gigantic signs that people can't miss.

15. Apr 18, 2007

edward

The oil companies are also saying that the supply is slowed in the Spring because they have to start adding ethanol or MBTE to produce the oxygenated fuels many cities require.

The odd thing is that every spring catches them by surprise and they aren't ready for it. I think that they should be held accountable for the yearly spring windfall profits. They have no incentive to want to change the refining processes on their own.

16. Apr 18, 2007

JasonRox

I heard Biodiesel emmitt's more carbon than regular diesel. Is that true? If you say no, then is there a source?

Remember, I'm not arguing it is, so don't ask for a source from me. I just heard. If you just heard it is not true, than say so or provide a source.

17. Apr 18, 2007

Moonbear

Staff Emeritus
I don't know if it's true or not, but one factor to consider is that growing the crops for it also absorbs carbon, so if someone does have information on that, we'd need to know the net difference between carbon used in production and released during burning to know if one really was better or worse than the other overall.

As for gas prices going up, I don't know if that's really going to change anyone's habits much. Maybe for a short time while they complain at the initial shock, but then they'll get used to it again and go right back to what they were doing before. We've already hit \$3/gal many times before in the past few years, and it hasn't changed much. It's not like it's more cost-effective to run out and buy a new car, and there aren't any other options around here as alternative fuels for the cars people already have, and we don't have any public transportation worth using, so even if people here wanted to do something different, they really can't. More likely, the habits that will change are other things they cut back buying so they have the money to pay for gas (or the rising cost of everything else as the higher prices start affecting everything that requires shipping).

18. Apr 18, 2007

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Since all of the carbon in the algae [grown in open ponds] and other crops comes from the atmosphere, biodiesel is considered to be carbon neutral. I do sometimes see numbers like 95% neutral, which I don't yet understand. However, algae for biodiesel production is being investigated and used to scrub carbon dioxide from industrial emissions, so in this case biodiesel is considered to be made from "recycled carbon".

Last edited: Apr 18, 2007
19. Apr 18, 2007

brewnog

Biodiesel is carbon neutral; the carbon released as CO2 during combustion is equal to that absorbed by the plant from atmospheric CO2 during its life.

I believe the 95% efficiency referred to by Ivan is to take into account carbon released (from tractors, trucks and refineries etc) used during production, processing, and transport of the fuel.

20. Apr 18, 2007

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
I wondered about that: It assumes that we don't use biodiesel power to make biodiesel. If so, that can eventually be avoided.