Hamilton EOM for Schwarzschild Metric: Problem Solved

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the equations of motion (EOM) in Hamiltonian form for a particle in the Schwarzschild metric using a covariant Lagrangian. Participants explore the implications of the Hamiltonian formulation in the context of general relativity and the specific characteristics of the Schwarzschild metric.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a covariant Lagrangian and seeks to derive the Hamiltonian equations of motion for a particle in the Schwarzschild metric, questioning the application of these equations given the canonical momentum definitions.
  • Another participant points out that the Hamiltonian's dependence on the metric's components implies that the right-hand side of the equations does not necessarily equal zero, challenging the initial assertion regarding the conservation of momentum.
  • A later reply suggests consulting an external resource for a worked-out example, indicating that there may be established methods or solutions available in the literature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Hamiltonian formulation in the context of the Schwarzschild metric, particularly regarding the dependence of the Hamiltonian on the metric and the resulting equations of motion. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives on the correct application of the equations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the Hamiltonian formulation in general relativity, particularly regarding the dependence on the metric and the implications for momentum conservation. Specific assumptions about the nature of the Hamiltonian and its variables are not fully explored.

sergiokapone
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I have a problem (this is not homework)
Based on covariant Lagrangian ## \mathcal {L} = \frac {m}{2} \frac{dx^{\mu}}{ds} \frac {dx _ {\mu}}{ds} ## record the equations of motion in Hamiltonian form for a particle in the Schwarzschild metric (SM).

Based on Legandre transformations
\begin{equation}
H =\frac {m}{2} p_{\mu}g^{\mu\nu}p_{\nu}
\end{equation}

EOM in Hamilton form (as shown in Goldstein)
\begin{align}
\frac{dx^{\mu}}{ds} = g^{\mu\nu} \frac{\partial H}{\partial p^{\nu}}\\
\frac{dp^{\mu}}{ds} = -g^{\mu\nu} \frac{\partial H}{\partial x^{\nu}}
\end{align}

Canonical momentum is ##p_{\mu}##, but not ##p^{\mu}##. How it is possible to apply this equations for the
Schwarzschild metric?

Again, if I write

\begin{align}
\frac{dx_{\mu}}{ds} = g_{\mu\nu} \frac{\partial H}{\partial p_{\nu}}\\
\frac{dp_{\mu}}{ds} = -g_{\mu\nu} \frac{\partial H}{\partial x_{\nu}} \label{5}
\end{align}

The RHS of equation ##\eqref{5}## in SM for any component allways will give ##0##, because ##H## does not depend on ##x^{\mu}##. But one know the ##p_{r}## does not conserve, ##dp_r/d\tau \neq 0## for SM.

My question, what is the correct view of EOM in Hamilton form for GR in general, or for the SM in specific?
 
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sergiokapone said:
The RHS of equation ##\eqref{5}## in SM for any component allways will give ##0##, because ##H## does not depend on ##x^{\mu}##.

Careful. In the definition of H in (1), the g^{\mu \nu} have explicit coordinate dependence, and thus H does also.
 
Ok, thanx, I try.
 
sergiokapone said:
I have a problem (this is not homework)
Based on covariant Lagrangian ## \mathcal {L} = \frac {m}{2} \frac{dx^{\mu}}{ds} \frac {dx _ {\mu}}{ds} ## record the equations of motion in Hamiltonian form for a particle in the Schwarzschild metric (SM).
If you want to see this worked out have a look at http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.5611v1.pdf.
 

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