Harmonic Functions: Proving Constantness

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Gh0stZA
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Functions Harmonic
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of harmonic functions, specifically addressing the question of whether a function \( u: \mathbb{R}^2 \rightarrow \mathbb{R} \) must be constant if both \( u \) and \( e^u \) are harmonic. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical explanations related to harmonicity in the context of partial differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on proving that \( u \) must be constant given that both \( u \) and \( e^u \) are harmonic.
  • Another participant provides the definition of harmonicity and outlines the necessary conditions involving second derivatives.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the implications of their calculations, questioning how to conclude that \( e^u \) is constant.
  • There is a correction regarding the formulation of the harmonic condition, with emphasis on the proper handling of derivatives.
  • One participant elaborates on the steps needed to compute the second partial derivatives of \( e^u \) and discusses the implications of these calculations for harmonicity.
  • Another participant highlights that for \( e^u \) to be harmonic, the sum of certain terms must equal zero, leading to the conclusion that the first derivatives of \( u \) must be zero.
  • Finally, a participant expresses understanding after following the discussion, indicating clarity on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple viewpoints and some confusion regarding the implications of the harmonic conditions. While participants engage in technical reasoning, no consensus is reached on the conclusion that \( u \) must be constant, as the discussion remains exploratory.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about specific mathematical steps and the implications of their calculations. There are unresolved issues regarding the assumptions made in the derivations and the conditions under which the conclusions hold.

Gh0stZA
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
Hi everyone,
if I could get a push in the right direction with this question I'd really appreciate it:

Let [tex]u: \mathbb{R} ^2 \rightarrow \mathbb{R}[/tex] be given. Show that if both [tex]u = u(x,y)[/tex] and [tex]e^u (x,y)[/tex] are harmonic then [tex]u[/tex] must be constant.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
To be harmonic, a function must satisfy
[tex]\nabla u= \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2}+ \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial y^2}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial e^u}{\partial x}= \frac{\partial u}{\partial x}e^u[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2}= \frac{\partial u}{\partial x^2}e^u+ \left(\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]

Do the same with the y variable and add.
 
Thank you.

So we know:
[tex]e^u \left( \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial y^2} \right) = \Delta u[/tex]
and
[tex]\Delta u = \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial x^2} u + \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial y^2} u = 0 + 0 = 0[/tex]

So we can say:
[tex]e^u \left( \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial y^2} \right) = 0[/tex]

While [tex]e^u[/tex] is not zero, how can I prove that it's a constant from here on?
 
I think I made a mistake.

[tex]\frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial x^2} u + \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial y^2} u = \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial y^2}[/tex] is it not?

[tex]e^u \left( \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial y^2} \right) = \left( \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial ^2 u}{\partial y^2} \right)[/tex]

and

[tex]e^u = 1 \Rightarrow u = 0[/tex] which is a constant.
 
I think you're having problems with this Ghost. Look, I fixed Hall's Latex here:


[tex]\frac{\partial e^u}{\partial x}= \frac{\partial u}{\partial x}e^u[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2}= \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2}e^u+ \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]


See, that's the second partial with respect to x. Now you compute the second partial with respect to y. Do the first partial, then using the chain-rule, get the second partial. Now add up the two sets. Since u is harmonic, the u_xx+u_yy term will drop out since it's zero right. Now, what must the remaining part of that sum be if it is to be harmonic, that is, if it is to equal zero? Keep in mind e^u is never zero for any value of u.
 
jackmell said:
I think you're having problems with this Ghost. Look, I fixed Hall's Latex here:


[tex]\frac{\partial e^u}{\partial x}= \frac{\partial u}{\partial x}e^u[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2}= \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2}e^u+ \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]


See, that's the second partial with respect to x. Now you compute the second partial with respect to y. Do the first partial, then using the chain-rule, get the second partial. Now add up the two sets. Since u is harmonic, the u_xx+u_yy term will drop out since it's zero right. Now, what must the remaining part of that sum be if it is to be harmonic, that is, if it is to equal zero? Keep in mind e^u is never zero for any value of u.

Okay so we have:
[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2}= \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2}e^u+ \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial y^2}= \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial y^2}e^u+ \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]

If we add them together:
[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial y^2} = \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2}e^u + \frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial y^2}e^u + \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 e^u + \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial y^2} = e^u (0) + \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 e^u + \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial y^2} = \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 e^u + \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]

[tex]e^u \left( \frac{\partial^2 }{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial^2}{\partial y^2} \right) = e^u \left( \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 + \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)^2 \right)[/tex]

Am I right up to here?
 
Gh0stZA said:
[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial y^2} = \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 e^u + \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)^2 e^u[/tex]

Don't do the last step. So just consider the next to last expression written as:

[tex]\frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial x^2} + \frac{\partial^2 e^u}{\partial y^2} = e^u\left[\left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)^2 + \left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}\right)^2 \right][/tex]

Now, in order for the function e^u to be harmonic, then the sum of the double partials on the left have to be zero right. So, if that has to be zero, then the right then has to be zero, but e^u is never zero. So that means, in order for e^u to be harmonic, that sum in the brackets has to be zero. But the squares mean that it's always positive or zero. But in order for it to be zero, then each first partial has to be zero. Well, there you go. What kind of function has it's first derivative zero?
 
Thank you, I get it now. :)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K