Music Has all the Good Music Been Played/Copied/Completed?

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A younger musician recently expressed the belief that all good music has already been created, suggesting a sense of defeatism in the music industry. This perspective has sparked debate, with many disagreeing and emphasizing that originality still exists, despite the influence of past artists. Critics argue that music, like other art forms, evolves and new genres continue to emerge, often blending existing styles in innovative ways. The discussion highlights that while much music may seem derivative, the potential for creativity remains vast and largely unexplored. Ultimately, the consensus is that the landscape of music is far from exhausted.
  • #91
Gorillaz and Justice both sound like 1970s bands to me. And I like those bands. Thank U just sounds like generic pop to me that isn't very interesting. I don't really know much about the technical aspects you are pointing to, except that they don't seem to make a big difference about what the song is. "When We All Fall Asleep" sounds like the stuff they played on Twin Peaks in the 90's. I'm not talking about what is popular or trendy, just new.

Maybe my problem is that I don't know where to look to find new music. They still have billboard? Why?
 
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  • #92
AndreasC said:
Researches show most people stop discovering new music after a certain age.
Here's a question, though. . . . :wink:

Can anybody hear, even minor, any similarity between these two songs ?This one, that would probably be considered "new".

And was. . . released in March 2019 .And this one, definitely not considered "new".

And was. . . released in September 1967.Also, thanks to Spinnor, I did hear a new song that I like. . . I almost didn't click it either. .

Favorite songs (new thread) post #591. . . . 👍
Algr said:
It could be that the barrier is "Whenever you turned 21."
It was a huge barrier, I turned 21 in prison doing life without parole. . .
But Mama Tried .j/k . :DD
.
 
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  • #93
OCR said:
How about this though?



:woot:?:):nb)

Just kidding, the song you liked is fine, but one of the singers reminded me of this performance in a way.
 
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  • #94
OCR said:
Here's a question, though. . . . :wink:

Can anybody hear, even minor, any similarity between these two songs ?This one, that would probably be considered "new".

And was. . . released in March 2019 .And this one, definitely not considered "new".

And was. . . released in September 1967.Also, thanks to Spinnor, I did hear a new song that I like. . . I almost didn't click it either. .

Favorite songs (new thread) post #591. . . . 👍It was a huge barrier, I turned 21 in prison doing life without parole. . .
But Mama Tried .j/k . :DD
.
Yes, I did think about the similarity in the melody when I first heard the song. However (beyond the melody) it still doesn't sound like a song that could have come out in 1967. Had it come out in 1967 it would sound... Well... Like the Doors song. Someone could make a dubstep remix of Beethoven's 5th. Sure, it would have the same melody, but the dubstep remix couldn't have come out in Beethoven's time.
 
  • #95
Algr said:
Gorillaz and Justice both sound like 1970s bands to me
Gorillaz sound like a 70s band to you?? Like... What band do you think they sound like? Which of their songs sounds like a 70s song to you? I'm sorry but this is extremely surprising to me.

Algr said:
I don't really know much about the technical aspects you are pointing to, except that they don't seem to make a big difference about what the song is.
Are you talking about the triplet flow? It makes a huge difference, it is immediately recognizable and it just wasn't broadly used in pop music before this last decade, so whenever you hear it in pop music it is more or less impossible to confuse it with something from the 90s or older. If you hear it you'll know what I am talking about:
 
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  • #96
Examples of triplet flow and trap influenced hi-hats in the albums I mentioned:

This was the big single from Thank U, Next. Skip to 00:42. The rhythmic vocals have a triplet feel, and they are combined with the rapid hi hats which are a hallmark of trap. At 2:04 there is also a break where she rap sings in triplets. Before the 2000s rap singing itself was uncommon. Triplet flow was also uncommon. On top of that, combining hip hop elements with more traditional pop was ALSO uncommon, with only a few notable exceptions. So this is very much a song of the 2010s, and couldn't have come out earlier.
How about this one?

The trap influenced bit is at 2:45. This one also features the really deep bass which was also not as common before the darker varieties of trap popularised it.
Or how about this?

Sure, the melody of the hook is extremely similar to People Are Strange. But does the rest of the song really sound like anything that came out before the 21st century? I'd be interested to see an old song similar to that one.
 
  • #97
Not a recent issue:



 
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  • #98
BWV said:
Not a recent issue:




What are you talking about?
 
  • #99
same motif, very different pieces
 
  • #100
OCR said:
It was a huge barrier, I turned 21 in prison doing life without parole. . .
But Mama Tried .
Great song written and performed by Merle Haggard, who really did spend time in prison (San Quentin). There was also a great cover of it done by Grateful Dead on their 2nd album.
 
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  • #101
AndreasC said:
This was the big single from Thank U, Next. Skip to 00:42.

I can hear triplets in the "My favorite things" section. But at :42 it just goes into a fast 4/4 with emphasis on the 1 and 2 beats. I don't hear triplets at that point.
 
  • #102
The triplet thing is significant as hip hop's roots are in funk, which is a 16th note groove (4 notes per beat), in contrast to the earlier style of swung 8ths in blues and Jazz which was a triplet feel
 
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  • #103
Algr said:
I can hear triplets in the "My favorite things" section. But at :42 it just goes into a fast 4/4 with emphasis on the 1 and 2 beats. I don't hear triplets at that point.
She starts on the off beat, omits the third note and repeats the pattern twice per bar. It is similar to the Versace flow, very common in trap.
To see this more clearly, try filling in the gaps by "echoing" the patterns. So instead of saying "I want it *pause* I got it *pause*", you say "I want it I want it I got it I got it". Then you will see that it is indeed triplets.
 
  • #104
BWV said:
same motif, very different pieces
Triplets exist since the beginning of music, probably. It's almost like saying "notes". Triplet flow in rapping doesn't, especially in the style of trap with the rattling hi hats etc.
 
  • #105
AndreasC said:
Yes, I did think about the similarity in the melody when I first heard the song.


That was all. . . . :smile:

Carry on.Oh wait !

Just for fun. . . . :DD

.
 
  • #106
OCR said:
Oh wait !

Just for fun. . . . :DD

Most of it is in 4/4 but the middle bit is 236/991. I do enjoy a good time change.
 
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  • #107
I guess so when stuff like this is top of charts. . Actually it's just as well this cannot be played.
 
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  • #108
Algr said:
Most of it is in 4/4 but the middle bit is 236/991. I do enjoy a good time change.
I don't know if my math is right, but wouldn't 991th notes sound something like this?

 
  • #109
I've been a musician for fifty years. I see human music as clinging to tiny islands in the sea of possibilities.

One day in Oregon I visited a wildlife reserve for migrating birds. The music of blackbirds is most impressive. It isn't a repetitive song, they improvise. They work off one another's song. They don't use human scales or rhythms at all. It is a completely different approach, and to me it sounds great.

So why is contemporary pop music bad? It has nothing to do with the possibilities being exhausted. The laws of combinatorics being what they are, that will never happen. Indeed mostly I listen to 21st century music. But NOT what comes over the radio. Through modern technology I can hear the whole world's music, even what Chinese teenagers are doing in their bedrooms. There is more great music going on than ever before. There are very talented people who don't want the hard life of a pro musician. Now they can play in the bedroom and make their money by endorsing musical instruments.

Western-style classical music is also coming out of the 20th century atonal dead end. I have heard fantastic wild new "classical" stuff at the arts college in Tokyo.

So why isn't it on mass media? It's because in the 1970's music companies did scientific studies of the preferences of ordinary people. They found that ordinary people preferred very simple music. Ordinary people don't sit down and listen to music. They don't give it their full attention. They give it hardly any attention at all. It's "the soundtrack of your life," something that sets a mood but is not a distraction, that does not draw the attention. They prefer routine, uninteresting, unemotional music. It worked: the market for music is bigger than ever. That's fine with me as long as I don't have to listen to it. They also learned that for stardom music hardly matters at all, looks is what does it. The visual sense completely dominates the aural. Good music for your video is a distraction, a drawback, a cost center, a liability.

Artists from the 1960's are selling more today than they did then! So why go to the risk and expense of developing new musical acts? It's a lot more profitable to sell the old stuff.

I have been in Japan for over a year and the musical environment is completely different than in the USA. Simple music is never heard. The background music in supermarkets and restaurants is sometimes so good I stop everything and record it. Musical performances in Tokyo might be the best in the world. It's because it is routine for kids to learn music starting at age three then practice diligently. There are little piano schools everywhere. I have heard middle school bands that were as good as music college bands in the US. This is normal. So there is a pool of millions of highly skilled musicians. Those who turn pro are the cream of this crop. They are at a level of skill that in the West is unthinkable. They have an audience of those millions of skilled musicians, so they can make a living. Another thing: they learn to actually play the stuff, not rely on Pro Tools to fake a recording. Japanese bands are starting to find a well-deserved audience in the West. They have so much skill that they are overcoming the formidable language barrier.

There is plenty of great and original music being played. But you have to go to it. It won't come to you unbidden. When I was in the US there was a summer series of ten concerts in the park. Nine of them were "tribute" bands, whose goal is to copy an act from the past. In Japan there are very few tribute bands. People want new things.

I DID hear some good original music in the USA at festivals and anime conventions. It's still around. But those acts don't make the big time any more. I suppose they have day jobs.
 
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  • #110
Hornbein said:
I've been a musician for fifty years. I see human music as clinging to tiny islands in the sea of possibilities.

One day in Oregon I visited a wildlife reserve for migrating birds. The music of blackbirds is most impressive. It isn't a repetitive song, they improvise. They work off one another's song. They don't use human scales or rhythms at all. It is a completely different approach, and to me it sounds great.

So why is contemporary pop music bad? It has nothing to do with the possibilities being exhausted. The laws of combinatorics being what they are, that will never happen. Indeed mostly I listen to 21st century music. But NOT what comes over the radio. Through modern technology I can hear the whole world's music, even what Chinese teenagers are doing in their bedrooms. There is more great music going on than ever before. There are very talented people who don't want the hard life of a pro musician. Now they can play in the bedroom and make their money by endorsing musical instruments.

Western-style classical music is also coming out of the 20th century atonal dead end. I have heard fantastic wild new "classical" stuff at the arts college in Tokyo.

So why isn't it on mass media? It's because in the 1970's music companies did scientific studies of the preferences of ordinary people. They found that ordinary people preferred very simple music. Ordinary people don't sit down and listen to music. They don't give it their full attention. They give it hardly any attention at all. It's "the soundtrack of your life," something that sets a mood but is not a distraction, that does not draw the attention. They prefer routine, uninteresting, unemotional music. It worked: the market for music is bigger than ever. That's fine with me as long as I don't have to listen to it. They also learned that for stardom music hardly matters at all, looks is what does it. The visual sense completely dominates the aural. Good music for your video is a distraction, a drawback, a cost center, a liability.

Artists from the 1960's are selling more today than they did then! So why go to the risk and expense of developing new musical acts? It's a lot more profitable to sell the old stuff.

I have been in Japan for over a year and the musical environment is completely different than in the USA. Simple music is never heard. The background music in supermarkets and restaurants is sometimes so good I stop everything and record it. Musical performances in Tokyo might be the best in the world. It's because it is routine for kids to learn music starting at age three then practice diligently. There are little piano schools everywhere. I have heard middle school bands that were as good as music college bands in the US. This is normal. So there is a pool of millions of highly skilled musicians. Those who turn pro are the cream of this crop. They are at a level of skill that in the West is unthinkable. They have an audience of those millions of skilled musicians, so they can make a living. Another thing: they learn to actually play the stuff, not rely on Pro Tools to fake a recording. Japanese bands are starting to find a well-deserved audience in the West. They have so much skill that they are overcoming the formidable language barrier.

There is plenty of great and original music being played. But you have to go to it. It won't come to you unbidden. When I was in the US there was a summer series of ten concerts in the park. Nine of them were "tribute" bands, whose goal is to copy an act from the past. In Japan there are very few tribute bands. People want new things.

I DID hear some good original music in the USA at festivals and anime conventions. It's still around. But those acts don't make the big time any more. I suppose they have day jobs.
One time I was playing guitar outside and I tried to play to/with the sounds the birds were making and as close to the same key as possible. It might have been just in my head, but it seemed like they were responding/playing along with the guitar as well, and it was actually a pretty good sound.
 
  • #111
Hornbein said:
I see human music as clinging to tiny islands in the sea of possibilities.
I agree.
Hornbein said:
The music of blackbirds is most impressive.
I agree. And I think it is very beautiful.
 
  • #112
DennisN said:
I agree.

I agree. And I think it is very beautiful.
Kate Bush recorded a duet with a blackbird. Eric Dolphy was largely inspired by the music of birds.

On Youtube is a parrot who sings human pop music. Can't do the lyrics and doesn't stick close to the original melody but is on the beat and in tune.
 
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  • #113
Click Please. Universal.

 
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  • #114
Indeed the Japanese are savvy to U.S soul music
 
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  • #115
Hornbein said:
I've been a musician for fifty years. I see human music as clinging to tiny islands in the sea of possibilities.

One day in Oregon I visited a wildlife reserve for migrating birds. The music of blackbirds is most impressive. It isn't a repetitive song, they improvise. They work off one another's song. They don't use human scales or rhythms at all. It is a completely different approach, and to me it sounds great.

So why is contemporary pop music bad? It has nothing to do with the possibilities being exhausted. The laws of combinatorics being what they are, that will never happen. Indeed mostly I listen to 21st century music. But NOT what comes over the radio. Through modern technology I can hear the whole world's music, even what Chinese teenagers are doing in their bedrooms. There is more great music going on than ever before. There are very talented people who don't want the hard life of a pro musician. Now they can play in the bedroom and make their money by endorsing musical instruments.

Western-style classical music is also coming out of the 20th century atonal dead end.
atonal music was not a dead end, it’s great stuff - particularly if it includes blackbird song

 
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  • #116
 
  • #117
 
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  • #118
 
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  • #119
morrobay said:
Recently I read a quote/statement by a younger (20's) male member of a modern band: apprx: All the good music has already been created,played,copied, completed... I do not think he was referring to classical but I am assuming just about everything else: pop, blues ,jazz, motown, country western. ( And in my opinion that was accomplished about 1960 to 1966)
Now for me and I am sure many others he is preaching to the choir. But what did surprise me was this statement made by a young person in the music world. Agree/disagree ?
No, but overall more restricted. An equation of this could be 1/number. As the number of pieces increases, the percent gets smaller and smaller. This is made worse with restrictive copyright which gives corporations more and more power, the argument is that "we must preserve culture" but you cannot guarantee that corporations won't defile their own IPs, as they often do.

Regardless of corporations handing out C&D's like candycanes on Christmas, we are also approaching the age of the obsolete human. AI is becoming increasingly advanced and is able to mimick music without humans being actually able to reliably detect this. Sooner or later humans will become totally obsolete and we will have to create some kind of way for humans to still feel validated and given some kind of creative artistic purpose for their lives.
 
  • #120
paradisePhysicist said:
No, but overall more restricted. An equation of this could be 1/number. As the number of pieces increases, the percent gets smaller and smaller. This is made worse with restrictive copyright which gives corporations more and more power, the argument is that "we must preserve culture" but you cannot guarantee that corporations won't defile their own IPs, as they often do.

Regardless of corporations handing out C&D's like candycanes on Christmas, we are also approaching the age of the obsolete human. AI is becoming increasingly advanced and is able to mimick music without humans being actually able to reliably detect this. Sooner or later humans will become totally obsolete and we will have to create some kind of way for humans to still feel validated and given some kind of creative artistic purpose for their lives.
How should we react to that? What you describe is disappointing. Music as we humans find and take it comes from humans and is expected to be taken in by other humans. Machines making music according to some machined decisions? I do not know how to react, but only can say, I do not like that. Too sad I cannot find a way to discuss in finer detail.
 

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