Has Gravity Probe B Confirmed Frame Dragging?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter selfAdjoint
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Frame Frame dragging
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Gravity Probe B experiment and its potential confirmation of frame dragging, as well as comparisons with other satellite experiments. Participants explore the implications of recent news articles and question the accuracy and significance of different experimental approaches to measuring frame dragging effects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight a recent news story indicating that an effect was detected by observing two satellites over time, questioning the implications for Gravity Probe B.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential impact of laser pulses on the satellites' positions, with questions about whether this effect is negligible and how surrounding gases might influence measurements.
  • There is a suggestion that the article in Nature may address the questions regarding the effects of laser pulses and environmental factors on satellite measurements.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the accuracy of the satellite tests compared to Gravity Probe B, noting that Gravity Probe B is expected to achieve a higher precision of about 1% compared to the 10% error margin mentioned for other experiments.
  • It is noted that Gravity Probe B and the LAGEOS satellites experiment are fundamentally different, with Gravity Probe B testing frame dragging using a solid gyroscope, while LAGEOS is examining whether satellites follow geodesics that include frame dragging perturbations.
  • Participants inquire about additional resources and technical articles related to frame dragging and its implications, particularly in the context of spinning black holes and polar jets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance and accuracy of the Gravity Probe B experiment compared to other satellite experiments. There is no consensus on whether Gravity Probe B has definitively confirmed frame dragging, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the findings from various experiments.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various error margins and the nature of different experimental setups, indicating that assumptions about accuracy and methodology may vary. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainties in the interpretation of experimental results related to frame dragging.

selfAdjoint
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
Messages
6,843
Reaction score
11
News story this morning.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6290610/.

Effect detected by observing two satellites over a long time.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
How big an effect on the position of the satellites do the millions of laser pulses striking the satellites have.Presumably it is negligible.And what about any gases in the neighbourhood of the satellites - could the pulses affect them significantly?
 
Last edited:
Rothiemurchus said:
How big an effect on the position of the satellites do the millions of laser pulses striking the satellites have.Presumably it is negligible.And what about any gases in the neighbourhood of the satellites - could the pulses affect them significantly?

I presume the article in Nature will address those questions.
 
That's got to be somewhat embarrassing for the Gravity Prove B group...having their $600 million program beaten by a couple of scientists looking at a couple of regular satellites.
 
LastOneStanding said:
That's got to be somewhat embarrassing for the Gravity Prove B group...having their $600 million program beaten by a couple of scientists looking at a couple of regular satellites.

I don't think this satellite test is as nearly as accurate as the gravity probe B test will be when it's finished.
 
I have read it at physicsweb.org, and there says that the errors are about 10 %, and Gravity Probe B will be about 1 %
 
As well as being more accurate the Gravity Probe B is a different type of experiment. The LAGEOS satellites experiment is testing whether they are following GR geodesics that include a frame dragging perturbation. The GPB satellite is testing the frame dragging of a solid gyroscope. Solid gyroscopes may behave differently from gyros that consist of orbiting satellites. Whether they do or not is a matter of experimental investigation rather than theoretical prediction.
- Garth
 
selfAdjoint said:
News story this morning.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6290610/.

Effect detected by observing two satellites over a long time.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/earth_drag.html

21 October NASA press release, it may provide some additional detail.
Has anyone seen the article in Nature?

a theory of how a spinning black hole produces polar jets, another frame-dragging effect
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/blackhole_jets_040817.html
this was linked to in the MSNBC article that selfAdjoint flagged.
Has the production of jets been discussed in some other thread. I would like to see a more detailed technical article on the same topic as these press releases. Anybody know of something online?
 
Last edited:
So has Gravity Probe B detected Frame Draging?
 

Similar threads

High School Can frame dragging do this?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
886
Graduate Looking for linear frame dragging formula
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Graduate Gravitational Waves and Frame-Dragging
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Undergrad What Is Frame Dragging and How Does It Affect Space?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Undergrad Frame Dragging Effect vs Spin Orbit Coupling in GR
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
High School Understanding Entangled Particles in Different Time Frames
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Undergrad Frame Dragging Direction for Outward Moving Test Mass
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Graduate Weyl tensor and coordinate acceleration
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
Undergrad Has Gravity Probe B proved framed dragging
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Graduate Frame Dragging Detected per GR
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K