Have we measured the change in the red shift over time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the measurement of red shifts of distant astronomical objects over time, particularly in the context of cosmic expansion and the implications of inflation theory. Participants explore the concept of redshift-drift and its potential to provide insights into the velocities of distant objects versus the expansion of space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether experiments have been conducted to measure changes in red shifts over time, suggesting that such measurements could clarify the contributions of actual velocity versus the expansion of space.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the expanding universe conclusion, proposing that red shifts could be explained by actual velocities rather than solely by cosmic expansion.
  • Another participant notes that the concept of redshift-drift has been discussed previously on the forum and provides links to related threads.
  • It is mentioned that there is no fundamental difference between describing the universe as "stuff is moving apart" and "space is expanding," with each description having its own strengths and weaknesses.
  • A participant highlights the challenges in measuring redshift accurately due to the minuscule rate of expansion compared to the universe's size, referencing the Hubble constant and efforts involving gravitational lensing to study redshift drift.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of red shifts and the implications of cosmic expansion. There is no consensus on the best approach to measure changes in red shift or on the validity of the expanding universe model.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in measuring redshift with high precision over vast distances and the complexities involved in interpreting the results in the context of cosmic expansion.

Justin Hunt
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Have experiments been done to measure the red shifts of distant objects over time? If inflation is correct, the the speed at which an object is receding relative to us is based on how far away that object is located. Therefore, the most distant objects would also have the highest acceleration. Is it possible to measure a change in red shift of distant objects due to this acceleration?

I am a bit of a skeptic of the expanding universe conclusion we derived by comparing red shift values to brightness when it could be explained with actual velocities versus expansion of space time or some combination of the two. In my opinion testing changes in red shift over time would be the most decisive way to determine what part of the velocity is due to actual velocity and what part is due to the expansion of space between us and the distant object.
 
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Justin Hunt said:
Have experiments been done to measure the red shifts of distant objects over time? If inflation is correct, the the speed at which an object is receding relative to us is based on how far away that object is located. Therefore, the most distant objects would also have the highest acceleration. Is it possible to measure a change in red shift of distant objects due to this acceleration?.

This is called redshift-drift, and it occasionally come up here at Physics Forums. See,

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...or-cosmological-redshift.617506/#post-3981620

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/possible-way-to-measure-dark-energy.826976/#post-5194025
 
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Justin Hunt said:
I am a bit of a skeptic of the expanding universe conclusion we derived by comparing red shift values to brightness when it could be explained with actual velocities versus expansion of space time or some combination of the two. In my opinion testing changes in red shift over time would be the most decisive way to determine what part of the velocity is due to actual velocity and what part is due to the expansion of space between us and the distant object.
There's no difference between the description of our universe as "stuff is moving apart" and "space is expanding". They're two different ways of describing the exact same phenomenon. Each description has strengths and weaknesses in terms of providing understanding of what's going on.
 
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Keep in mind the rate of expansion is absolutely microscopic compared to the size of the universe. The Hubble constant is about 70 km/sec/MEGAparsec. That translates into about 7x10-9% per year. We cannot measure redshift with such phenomenal accuracy - even at vast distances over many, many years. Scientists have come up with a very clever effortt using gravitational lensing as described here; https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.05142, Redshift drift of gravitational lensing
 

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