Having difficulty understanding radicals

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    Difficulty Radicals
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding and simplifying radical expressions, including specific examples and general rules for manipulating square roots. Participants explore various methods for simplifying radicals and express uncertainty about the correctness of their approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that ##\sqrt{9-3x}## can be simplified to ##3\sqrt{3-x}##, but another participant challenges this by stating that the two expressions are not equivalent, highlighting the need for an equation to solve for x.
  • There is a discussion about the correct way to simplify ##\sqrt{4x+12}##, with one participant asserting that it can be expressed as ##4\sqrt{x+3}##, while others question the validity of this simplification.
  • Another participant presents a method for simplifying ##{\sqrt\frac{8}{9}}##, but expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their steps.
  • Some participants provide examples of simplifying radicals, such as ##\frac{1}{2} \sqrt{x} = \sqrt{\frac{x}{4}}## and ##\sqrt{54} = 3 \sqrt{6}##, indicating that these transformations are based on exponent rules.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of understanding the distinction between the root symbol and grouping symbols, noting that factors can be factored inside the root but cannot always be moved outside without sufficient counts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain simplifications and the rules governing radical expressions. There is no consensus on the correctness of the methods discussed, and uncertainty remains regarding the appropriate techniques for simplifying the given expressions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention limitations in typesetting and notation, which may affect the clarity of their mathematical expressions. Additionally, there are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the simplifications presented.

MathJakob
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I know how the very basics but then I get given a question like this.

##\sqrt{9-3x}## and I think I can divide both by 3. ##3\sqrt{3-x}## and so ##x=3##

Then I get ##\sqrt{4x+12}## and again I can take 4 from each ##4\sqrt{x+3}## and so ##x=-3##

Is this the correct way to be solving these? Because I'm looking down the page and it starts getting real complicated looking, real fast and was just wondering if there is a simple way to go about solving these?

Simplify: ##{\sqrt\frac{9a}{8b^2}}## is the next question I face
 
Last edited:
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MathJakob said:
##\sqrt{9-3x}## and I think I can divide both by 3. ##3\sqrt{3-x}##
##\sqrt{9-3x}## is not the same as ##3\sqrt{3-x}##. Consider x=0, for example, and see what you get in the different expressions.

"and so x=3" does not make sense. There is no equality involved in the expressions.

Is this the correct way to be solving these?
To solve anything, you need an equation. something=somethingelse.
Simplify: ##{\sqrt\frac{9a}{8b^2}}## is the next question I face
There are rules for square roots (more general: rules for exponents) you can use here.
 
Also here is another one but I'm not sure it's correct:

##{\sqrt\frac{8}{9}}## = ##{\sqrt\frac{8}{9}\cdot{\sqrt\frac{9}{9}}}## = ##{\sqrt\frac{72}{81}}## =## \frac{\sqrt{72}}{9}##

?
 
That is correct.
 
MathJakob said:
I know how the very basics but then I get given a question like this.

##\sqrt{9-3x}## and I think I can divide both by 3. ##3\sqrt{3-x}## and so ##x=3##

Then I get ##\sqrt{4x+12}## and again I can take 4 from each ##4\sqrt{x+3}## and so ##x=-3##

Is this the correct way to be solving these? Because I'm looking down the page and it starts getting real complicated looking, real fast and was just wondering if there is a simple way to go about solving these?

Simplify: ##{\sqrt\frac{9a}{8b^2}}## is the next question I face

The distinction between the root symbol and grouping symbols is that although both are grouping symbols, the root symbol is a function symbol. Inside the root symbol, you can factor one or more common factors from terms, but you cannot necessarily move them outside of the root symbol; because doing so requires that you have great enough count of the factors as indicated by the root index.

[itex]\sqrt{9-3x}[/itex] you can do [itex]\sqrt{3(3-x)}[/itex] but not further.

([strike]All I did was added the proper parentheses for grouping symbol balancing and the typesetting fails. [/strike] [strike]I NEED the paired parentheses in the second expression! [/strike] The typesetting did work but failed while I first made the post and mathematical notation.)
 
Last edited:
I really want the typesetting to work right but it did not so I do this instead:

(9-3x)1/2 is the same as (3(3-x))1/2 but you cannot go any further.
 
This is something you will commonly see/use:

##\frac{1}{2} \sqrt{x} = \sqrt{\frac{1}{4}} \; \sqrt{x} = \sqrt{\frac{x}{4}}##
##\sqrt{4x} = \sqrt{4} \; \sqrt{x} = 2 \sqrt{x}##

Also ##\sqrt{54} = \sqrt{9 * 6} = 3 \sqrt{6}##.

These are all explained by replacing each radical with the corresponding exponent, like ##(\frac{x}{4})^{\frac{1}{2}}##.
 
MathJakob said:
Also here is another one but I'm not sure it's correct:

##{\sqrt\frac{8}{9}}## = ##{\sqrt\frac{8}{9}\cdot{\sqrt\frac{9}{9}}}## = ##{\sqrt\frac{72}{81}}## =## \frac{\sqrt{72}}{9}##

?
That's true but [tex]\sqrt{9}= 3[/tex] so that [tex]\frac{\sqrt{8}}{3}[/tex] would be better. In fact, since [tex]8= 4(2)[/tex] and [tex]\sqrt{8}= 2\sqrt{2}[/tex], the simplest form is [tex]\frac{2\sqrt{2}}{3}= \frac{2}{3}\sqrt{2}[/tex].
 

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