Heat, Work, Change in Entropy and Energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating thermodynamic quantities such as heat (q), work (w), change in internal energy (∆E), and change in enthalpy (∆H) for a process involving nitrous oxide gas (N2O) being cooled at constant pressure. Participants are addressing a homework problem that requires the application of various thermodynamic equations and principles.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates q using the formula q = mCΔT but faces issues with unit cancellation and the resulting value.
  • Another participant points out the incorrectness of the initial calculations and suggests using the ideal gas law to find initial and final volumes.
  • There is a correction regarding the equation for ∆H, with a participant later recalculating q and finding a new value for work (w) based on volume change.
  • Participants discuss the sign of work, with one suggesting that work done on the system should be positive.
  • There is a query about the correct formula for calculating entropy, with confusion between enthalpy (∆H) and entropy (S) being noted.
  • One participant expresses concern about the accuracy of their calculations and seeks a better method to ensure correctness before an upcoming midterm.
  • Another participant provides an alternative approach to calculating ∆E and ∆H, emphasizing the relationship between these quantities and the change in PV.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the recalculated values for q and w, but there is ongoing uncertainty regarding the correct approach to calculating entropy and the interpretation of certain thermodynamic principles. The discussion remains unresolved on some aspects, particularly regarding the best methods for ensuring accuracy in calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about unit conversions and the application of thermodynamic equations. There are also references to different methods for calculating changes in entropy, indicating a lack of consensus on the best approach.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying thermodynamics, particularly those preparing for exams or homework related to heat transfer, work, and energy changes in gases.

ScreamingIntoTheVoid

Homework Statement


Calculate q, w, ∆E, and ∆H for the process in which 93.0 g of nitrous oxide gas (N2O) is cooled from 179°C to 55°C at a constant pressure of 4.00 atm.

Cp(N2O) = 38.70 J K-1 mol-1

Homework Equations


q= mCΔT
ΔH=n(Cp)=n(qv)ΔT
ΔE=q+w
w= -pΔV
*Probably something else too but I'm drawing a blank

The Attempt at a Solution


q= (93.0g)(38.70 K-1Mol-1)(-124°C) → -446288.4
w= -(4 atm) (101.3) (?) = ? *not 0 though*
ΔE=-446288.4+w=?
ΔH= (2.113 moles)(-446288.4)(-124°C)= A really big and incorrect number

Help?
 
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In your calculation of q, the units are incorrect. The grams and moles don't cancel.

From the ideal gas law, what is the initial volume? What is the final volume?

Your equation for ##\Delta H## is incorrect.
 
Chestermiller said:
In your calculation of q, the units are incorrect. The grams and moles don't cancel.

From the ideal gas law, what is the initial volume? What is the final volume?

Your equation for ##\Delta H## is incorrect.
Ok, in that case, q=nCp delta T -> (2.113 moles)(38.70)(-124) = -10139.8644 J
For the volumes I used pv=nRT, in which I calculated 19.55... for V1 and 14.175..., leaving the difference to be approximately 5.3752...
w= p delta V -> (4 x 101.3) (5.3752 L)= 2178.033824 J. Since work was put into the system to compress it, work is positive right?
Delta E= 2178.033824 + -10139.8644 J= -7961.830576 J?

Is any of that correct?
What formula should I use for Entropy instead?
 
ScreamingIntoTheVoid said:
Ok, in that case, q=nCp delta T -> (2.113 moles)(38.70)(-124) = -10139.8644 J
Correct. This is also equal to ##\Delta H##
For the volumes I used pv=nRT, in which I calculated 19.55... for V1 and 14.175..., leaving the difference to be approximately 5.3752...
Correct
w= p delta V -> (4 x 101.3) (5.3752 L)= 2178.033824 J. Since work was put into the system to compress it, work is positive right?
Correct
Delta E= 2178.033824 + -10139.8644 J= -7961.830576 J?
Correct, although I don't like how you "wild assed" this.

What formula should I use for Entropy instead?
Instead of what? What equations do you know for calculating the change in entropy for an ideal gas?
 
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Chestermiller said:
Correct. This is also equal to ##\Delta H##

Correct

Correct

Correct, although I don't like how you "wild assed" this.Instead of what? What equations do you know for calculating the change in entropy for an ideal gas?
The one I put above was the one I had in my notes. DeltaH= qp was also in there, but I looked over it I suppose.

"Wild assed ay? Is there a better way to calculate this to ensure accuracy (I have a midterm tomorrow).

THANK YOU very much!
 
ScreamingIntoTheVoid said:
The one I put above was the one I had in my notes. DeltaH= qp was also in there, but I looked over it I suppose.

"Wild assed ay? Is there a better way to calculate this to ensure accuracy (I have a midterm tomorrow).

THANK YOU very much!
##\Delta H## is not the change in entropy. It is the change in enthalpy. Entropy has the symbol S.

I would have done the other part this way:

$$W=-P\Delta V=-(4)(101.3)(-5.3752)=+2178 J$$

$$\Delta (PV)=-2178 J$$

$$\Delta H=\Delta E+\Delta (PV)$$
so
$$\Delta E=\Delta H-\Delta (PV)=-10140-(-2178)=-10140+2178=-7962 J$$
 
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