Help in evaluating the chain rule?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the chain rule in calculus, specifically in the context of converting between Cartesian and polar coordinates. Participants are exploring how to derive partial derivatives of a function defined in terms of polar coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 introduces the relationships between Cartesian coordinates (x, y) and polar coordinates (r, θ), stating the need to derive certain partial derivatives.
  • Post 1 expresses confusion regarding the derivation of specific partial derivatives and notes discrepancies in results.
  • Post 2 provides a breakdown of the chain rule application, detailing how to compute the derivatives ∂x/∂r and ∂y/∂r, as well as ∂x/∂θ and ∂y/∂θ, using the product rule and chain rule.
  • Post 3 acknowledges the need for a proof suitable for a calculus II level and reiterates the specific derivatives that need to be shown.
  • Post 4 suggests a resource (Wikipedia) for further reading on the topic, implying that it may contain the necessary information to answer the question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on the derivation of the specified partial derivatives. There is ongoing confusion and a request for clarification on the proofs, indicating that multiple interpretations or methods may exist.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made in applying the chain rule and the specific conditions under which the derivatives are calculated. The participants have not resolved the discrepancies in their calculations.

hivesaeed4
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$${x = r \cos \theta}$$,
$${y = r \sin \theta}$$, $${r^2 = x^2 + y^2}$$ and $${\theta = \tmop{ \arctan} (y / x)}$$ (with some caveats for the last formula).

Suppose $${u = u (x, y)}$$.

Show that

$${\frac{\partial u}{\partial r} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial x} \cos \theta + \frac{\partial u}{\partial y} \sin \theta}$$

$${\frac{\partial u}{\partial \theta} = - \frac{\partial u}{\partial x} r \sin \theta + \frac{\partial u}{\partial y} r \cos \theta}$$


Now suppose that $${u = u (r, \theta)}$$. Show that

$${\frac{\partial u}{\partial x} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial r} \cos \theta - \frac{\partial u}{\partial \theta} \frac{\sin \theta}{r}}$$

$${\frac{\partial u}{\partial y} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial r} \sin \theta + \frac{\partial u}{\partial \theta} \frac{\cos \theta}{r}}$$


Now I've proved the italic part but am stuck on the bold parts basically how are they calculated. I've tried the same method as used in the italic part ut am getting different answers.
For e.g in the last bold part instead of cos(theta)/r I got (cos(theta))^2.

Help?
 
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hivesaeed4 said:
$${x = r \cos \theta}$$,
$${y = r \sin \theta}$$, $${r^2 = x^2 + y^2}$$ and $${\theta = \tmop{ \arctan} (y / x)}$$

Okay, I'll show the first one, do you know the chain rule?
(∂u/∂r) = (∂u/∂x)(∂x/∂r)+(∂u/∂y)(∂y/∂r)
(∂u/∂θ) = (∂u/∂x)(∂x/∂θ)+(∂u/∂y)(∂y/∂θ)
Okay, if you agree with that, then do you agree that:

(∂x/∂r) = cosθ and
(∂y/∂r) = sinθ and
(∂x/∂θ) = (apply product rule) = (∂r/∂θ)*(cosθ) + (r)(∂cosθ/∂θ) = -r*sin(θ)
because (∂r/∂θ)=0 and (∂cosθ/∂θ) = -sin(θ) (where here I applied the chain rule, "outside is cos() and "inside" is theta. Derivative of outside is sine and derivative of theta with respect to theta is 1.
(∂y/∂θ) = r*cos(θ), for similar reasons.

If you have any questions about this, let me know. Also, are you concerned about the proof of the chain rule because there are different levels of the proof depending on the level of mathematics you're at... let me guess, calculus 2 final next week?
 
I don't know how you did it, but your guess was spot on (regarding the cal-II final). Anyway I do need the proof let's say at a level expected for any cal-II student.

Now as far as the
(∂x/∂r) = cosθ and
(∂y/∂r) = sinθ and
(∂x/∂θ) = (apply product rule) = (∂r/∂θ)*(cosθ) + (r)(∂cosθ/∂θ) = -r*sin(θ)
because (∂r/∂θ)=0 and (∂cosθ/∂θ) = -sin(θ) (where here I applied the chain rule, "outside is cos() and "inside" is theta. Derivative of outside is sine and derivative of theta with respect to theta is 1.
(∂y/∂θ) = r*cos(θ), for similar reasons.


I apologize cause I stated the wrong part of the question. My bad.

The question is :

Now suppose that $${u = u (r, \theta)}$$. Show that

$${\frac{\partial u}{\partial x} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial r} \cos \theta - \frac{\partial u}{\partial \theta} \frac{\sin \theta}{r}}$$

$${\frac{\partial u}{\partial y} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial r} \sin \theta + \frac{\partial u}{\partial \theta} \frac{\cos \theta}{r}}$$


How do I prove these?
 

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