Help relive my current obsession.

[Moonbear]

If Mr. Kim was looking for the scenic route to the coast why was he driving in the middle of the night? It is full dark here by 5pm (sunset ~4:30pm)

It was probably darker earlier in the woods too, when you don't get the last remnants of light from the sunset.

If he wanted to see what he was driving through he should have stopped in Eugene an hour north of Roseburg where they ate dinner at 8pm. It seems like he was bound and determined to keep the reservations at Gold Beach. Portland to Gold Beach is about an 8hr drive, in good weather. If he was interested in the scenerey he should have planned for another night in Southern Oregon.

Heck, he'd have been better off if they just pulled to the side of the main road when visibility got too bad to continue on (and while he still had plenty of gas in the car). Conserve gas by turning the car off and only restart it often enough to heat it up a little once in a while during the night (with 4 people in the car, they could have huddled together and kept fairly warm, especially if they just piled all the clothes in their luggage on themselves). Then, when daylight came and they could see where they were going again, they would have been ready to go.

You're probably right that "experienced camper" probably meant overly confident. There's a difference between setting up your tent in a nice campground in the summer, which a lot of people would call "experienced camper," and wilderness survival in the winter, which most people have the sense to know they aren't experienced at. Burning the tires sounds like he watched too many movies and didn't think about having plenty of natural resources around to burn first. If it came down to it, and there really wasn't anything else to burn, I'd probably start pulling upholstery out of the interior before taking the tires off the car...you might not be comfortable without seat cushions, but at least the car can still be driven when the snow thaws enough to get out.

I can understand looking for a clearing to stomp out SOS, but then he should have turned around and returned to the car.

 

[turbo]

You're probably right that "experienced camper" probably meant overly confident. There's a difference between setting up your tent in a nice campground in the summer, which a lot of people would call "experienced camper," and wilderness survival in the winter, which most people have the sense to know they aren't experienced at.

This is probably journalistic license from a city reporter who found out that Kim liked to go camping and did so on his vacations. When I was 14, members of my boy scout troop hiked into a remote area in north-central Maine between Christmas and New Years. We dug out rectangular spots in deep snow, pitched our pitiful canvas Baker tents, built fires to warm us and dry our clothing and gathered fir and spruce boughs to line the floorless tents and bury our cheap army surplus sleeping bags in. It was brutally cold out, but we used our fires to make hot soups, boiled potatoes, etc, and we stayed hydrated and (relatively) warm. This was about 1966. We did not have quallofil, down, fleece, gore-tex, etc. - just cotton and woolen clothing and boots made of leather and rubber. We were kids with just a couple of adult advisers. We were using gear that winter campers of today would look at in horror, but we were prepared. A couple of days and nights camping in near-zero temperatures with really crappy gear can be fun, if you're ready for it. None of the guys that I shared that experience with would have abandoned a functioning vehicle and his family like James Kim did - I can guarantee that.

 

[Evo]

This is probably journalistic license from a city reporter who found out that Kim liked to go camping and did so on his vacations. When I was 14, members of my boy scout troop hiked into a remote area in north-central Maine between Christmas and New Years. We dug out rectangular spots in deep snow, pitched our pitiful canvas Baker tents, built fires to warm us and dry our clothing and gathered fir and spruce boughs to line the floorless tents and bury our cheap army surplus sleeping bags in. It was brutally cold out, but we used our fires to make hot soups, boiled potatoes, etc, and we stayed hydrated and (relatively) warm. This was about 1966. We did not have quallofil, down, fleece, gore-tex, etc. - just cotton and woolen clothing and boots made of leather and rubber. We were kids with just a couple of adult advisers. We were using gear that winter campers of today would look at in horror, but we were prepared. A couple of days and nights camping in near-zero temperatures with really crappy gear can be fun, if you're ready for it. None of the guys that I shared that experience with would have abandoned a functioning vehicle and his family like James Kim did - I can guarantee that.

I even sent my two girls to Polar Camp, (about 1 mile away). It's a Wilderness Preserve, and the girls would go during really cold, icy, snowy weather and learn survival skills, (within 5 minutes of my house )I hope it sunk in.

 

[scorpa]

Everyone always laughs or stares in horror when I tell them I was taught hunter education/ survival in school, but I wouldn't trade what I learned there for anything.

 

[Integral]

This is probably journalistic license from a city reporter who found out that Kim liked to go camping and did so on his vacations. When I was 14, members of my boy scout troop hiked into a remote area in north-central Maine between Christmas and New Years. We dug out rectangular spots in deep snow, pitched our pitiful canvas Baker tents, built fires to warm us and dry our clothing and gathered fir and spruce boughs to line the floorless tents and bury our cheap army surplus sleeping bags in. It was brutally cold out, but we used our fires to make hot soups, boiled potatoes, etc, and we stayed hydrated and (relatively) warm. This was about 1966. We did not have quallofil, down, fleece, gore-tex, etc. - just cotton and woolen clothing and boots made of leather and rubber. We were kids with just a couple of adult advisers. We were using gear that winter campers of today would look at in horror, but we were prepared. A couple of days and nights camping in near-zero temperatures with really crappy gear can be fun, if you're ready for it. None of the guys that I shared that experience with would have abandoned a functioning vehicle and his family like James Kim did - I can guarantee that.

We did much the same thing, at about the same time. Our scout troop went camping every month rain (the usual condition) or shine (the summer). We also used equipment that modern campers look at with horror. Canvas backs and tents, heck when I started in '61 even pack frames were rare. I was one of the first ones in my troop you use a pack frame. I found a wooden/canvas frame, probably army surplus from WWII, in my uncles garage tied my pack to it and though I was quiet clever.

In Oregon we has some control over the general conditions, If we wanted snow we headed for the mountains, if we stayed low, we just had to deal with the rain!

 

[Astronuc]

We did much the same thing, at about the same time. Our scout troop went camping every month rain (the usual condition) or shine (the summer). We also used equipment that modern campers look at with horror. Canvas backs and tents, heck when I started in '61 even pack frames were rare. I was one of the first ones in my troop you use a pack frame. I found a wooden/canvas frame, probably army surplus from WWII, in my uncles garage tied my pack to it and though I was quiet clever.

In Oregon we has some control over the general conditions, If we wanted snow we headed for the mountains, if we stayed low, we just had to deal with the rain!

We did much the same thing in Texas. We used 6 man tarpulin tents held up by two poles and a horizontal brace, and 8 ropes. Then we upgraded to nylon two-man tents, since the tarpaulin was heavy. The nylon tents weren't very useful in the rain and some of us often woke up in a puddle of water. It made one appreciate hot coffee, scrambled eggs and bacon on a cold damp morning.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We have three missing hikers on Mt. Hood. The search begins...

 

[Evo]

Even weirder.

"When we finally reached the spot where the Kims' car stopped after a long, winding journey, our traveling companions -- Sgt. Joel Heller, Josephine County Sheriff's office, and John James, owner of the Black Bar Lodge -- both had the same exact thought: Why did the Kims continue down such a desolate path when they so clearly did not know where they were going?

Three times, we passed large yellow signs warning that snow may completely block the roadway."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/11/griffin.oregon/index.html

 

[Ivan Seeking]

They probably figured that they could just turn around if needed. I've been in a couple of bad situations on remote roads, and what can happen is that you think things are fine until it is too late to easily turn around and go back.

My best scout story: We reached the campsite after dark. When we awoke the next morning, many of us had scorpians in our bags and tents. We had set up camp right on a huge scorpian nest! It seems that scorpians like to cuddle in the cold.

 

[Integral]

I went to Google Earth which shows many of the logging roads in the area. I attempted to start from their car to figure out where they left NF23. ... I got lost...

How in the world did they get there? I have revised my claim that James could have walked out to help. Like as not he could have wondered that maze till he dropped and never found any help. The road they are on is a large loop, they may have been driving in circles.

 

[Integral]

Maybe we should start a Boy Scout camping story thread?

We had a favorite and frequently used camp site Wolf Creek, about 25mi from downtown Roseburg. To get into it we had to use our wits to cross aptly named Little River. During the summer this was no problem, you just stepped across. The winter months posed a problem. I recall once we rigged a bosun's chair. Another time the solution was to drive the logging roads to a point above and behind the camp spot on Wolf Creek. Wolf creek tumbles down a canyon which may in some respects resemble the terrain James saw. Steep forest/ brush covered canyon walls with the stream which created the canyon at the bottom. Well to make a short story of it. It got dark.

We were hiking cross country with no trail into a canyon noted for its cliffs and such. We were carrying everything we needed, so finally the scout master said, "Camp". We stopped in the middle of the woods and set up camp. The next morning got up and finished the hike in.

Ivan, if next summer you and Tsu want a very nice 3/4 mile hike, it is about a 2hr drive from us. The modern trail, with a bridge across Litte River, follows the creek up to a beautiful pair of falls.

 

[turbo]

Our troop hosted a Camporee in our home town, and local resident "Gadabout Gaddis - the Flying Fisherman" (he had a TV show about fly fishing) came to give us a demonstration of fly fishing. When he showed up, some scoutmasters showed him to the stream (great rainbow habitat) and ordered me to get out of it. I sat on the bank dejectedly with my fly rod waiting for him to finish his demonstration, while his cameraman wasted tons of film. After about 15-20 minutes of no strikes, he gave up and the scoutmasters said that I could go back to fishing. I hooked a really good fish on my first cast and Gadabout waded right out and tried to talk me into giving him my fly rod so his cameraman could film him playing and landing a fish. He said that he just wanted to show me how to properly play a big fish, but I wanted to land it myself. He left with his cameraman, and I played that fish for another 10-15 minutes, until the fish made a good run and cut downstream of a rock outcropping, and snapped the leader. I didn't care - it was my fish. I have taken rainbows over 6# out of that watershed.

 

[BobG]

I went to Google Earth which shows many of the logging roads in the area. I attempted to start from their car to figure out where they left NF23. ... I got lost...

How in the world did they get there? I have revised my claim that James could have walked out to help. Like as not he could have wondered that maze till he dropped and never found any help. The road they are on is a large loop, they may have been driving in circles.

I was looking at that, too. Without a good map and knowing exactly where they were, they weren't going to get out of there. At least not without a GPS so they could retrace their exact route. I just can't imagine them doing something like that in winter.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Here is a failed rescue on Mt. Hood a couple of years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhfJDq_I1HA&mode=related&search=