Help Union Labor at Convention Center

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of a union employee pushing a heavy load, specifically a trough filled with sodas and ice on a wheeled table, within the constraints of union lifting regulations. Participants explore the physics of pushing versus lifting, the impact of surface conditions, and the need for empirical data to assess the situation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the weight being pushed and seeks clarification on how to calculate it, given the union's lifting limit of 50 pounds.
  • Another participant notes that the ease of pushing depends on factors such as wheel size and the flatness of the floor, suggesting that multiple people could assist in moving the load.
  • A participant emphasizes the need for a formula to present to the union, mentioning that the wheels are 5 inches off the ground and the floors are smooth.
  • One suggestion involves using the friction equation, highlighting the difficulty in estimating the friction coefficient based on wheel quality.
  • Another participant humorously points out that the task involves pushing rather than lifting, recommending the use of a scale to gather empirical data on the force required to start moving the table.
  • A later reply proposes a method to measure the force needed to initiate movement by using a scale against the table, noting that the force required may vary once the table is in motion.
  • One participant agrees that the physics of the situation involves friction and other variables that were not specified in the initial problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying opinions on the factors affecting the ability to push the load, with no consensus on a definitive method or formula to calculate the force required. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to assess the situation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specific information about the friction coefficient, the condition of the wheels, and the surface texture, which could significantly affect the calculations and practical outcomes.

yvonnes
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Help! Union Labor at Convention Center

I was hoping someone could help me figure out the following: If I have a 40 lb trough filled with 250- 12oz sodas and 40 lbs of ice on top of a sico table on wheels that weighs 125lbs...how can i figure out if a union employee can push this to our events. Right now they are only allowed to lift no more than 50 pounds. What in weight are they pusing? How can I figure that out? Please help!
 
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It depends on many things. If they are big wheels, and you roll on a very flat floor, it could be ok, but if the wheels are small and the rolling surface is rough and not level, this could be quite a job.

Why can't 2-3 people push or pull together?
 


Dr Lots-o'watts said:
It depends on many things. If they are big wheels, and you roll on a very flat floor, it could be ok, but if the wheels are small and the rolling surface is rough and not level, this could be quite a job.

Why can't 2-3 people push or pull together?

We have very large events that require us to push many tables at a time. I need a formula that I can use to show to the union. The wheels are about 5 inches from the ground and our floors are flat and smooth...hospital like.
 


You can start with the friction equation which is friction coefficient times weight = force. But estimating the coefficient will be difficult. For very good wheels with bearings, it might be .1, but for mediocre wheels it could be .3. For .1 and a weight of 400lb, that gives 40lb of force. But it could easily be double or triple that if the wheels are bad.
 


Simple answer: they aren't lifting anything; they're pushing!

I think you'll have to go out and get a scale of some sort and gather some empirical data :D
 


Try this:

1. Get a volunteer to push a regular person-scale against the table.
2. Take the reading as soon as the table starts moving.

In principle, the hardest part is to get it going from a standing start. So the force never has to be be greater than that reading as it starts moving.

Of course, nothing prevents anyone to push as hard they want. And don't forget that when it's going, it might be as hard to stop.
 


I agree, the physics answer is that arbitrary little force is needed. The real interesting part involves friction and lumps in the carpet and so on, which were not stated with the problem.
 

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