Higgs and Lattice calculations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of the Higgs field and particle in the context of particle mass calculations, particularly in relation to lattice calculations. Participants explore the implications of lattice results that may not require the Higgs mechanism and question the necessity and understanding of the Higgs field in explaining mass.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that lattice calculations yield results fitting measured particle masses without invoking the Higgs field, questioning the necessity of the Higgs mechanism.
  • Another participant asserts that the work done in lattice calculations is largely unrelated to the Higgs mechanism.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that mass arises from both the Higgs mechanism and the strong interaction, noting that binding energy contributes to mass even if quarks are massless.
  • A quote from Frank Wilczek's book is presented, which discusses the Higgs field as a means to reconcile mass with weak interactions but claims it does not explain the origin of mass itself.
  • The same participant questions whether the primary role of the Higgs field is to cancel long-range weak forces, suggesting a need for further clarification on its purpose.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance and implications of the Higgs field in mass calculations. There is no consensus on the necessity of the Higgs field or its primary functions, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference complex concepts such as the "mass gap" and the relationship between binding energy and mass, which may require further elaboration or definitions for clarity. The discussion also touches on theoretical frameworks like SUSY without resolving their implications.

edpell
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My understanding is that the folks who do particle mass calculations using the formalism of a lattice get results that fit measured values well without using a Higgs field. Is this correct? If so, do we have any use for and/or reason to believe in the Higgs field/particle?
 
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What the lattice people do has little to nothing to do with the Higgs mechanism.
 
Mass comes from 2 places:

1) Higgs mechanism giving mass to fermions and the gauge bosons of electroweak interaction (W and Z)

2) The strong interaction, the gluon and quark content of hadron give rise to mass due to E = mc^2, the bidning energy manifests itself in the mass of objects!

c.f. nulei, where the mass is LOWER than the sum of the mass of the constitutent nucleons.

Now this is called the "mass gap", even if the quarks were massless (i.e. no higgs at all) hadrons will have non-zero mass!
 
quoting from Frank Wilczek's book "The Lightness of Being" page 201
" Then there's the Higgs particle, sometimes said to be "the origin of mass" or even "the God particle." ... In brief, the Higgs field (which is more fundamental than the particle) enables us to implement our vision of a universal cosmic superconductor and embodies the beautiful concept of spontaneous symmetry breaking. These ideas are deep, strange, glorious, and very probably true. But they don't explain the origin of mass--let alone the origin of God. Although it's accurate to say that the Higgs field allows us to reconcile the existence of certain kinds of mass with details of how the weak interactions work, that's a far cry from explaining the origin of mass or why different masses have the values they do."

in appendix B Wilczek goes on to explain how canceling of long range weak force by the "cosmic superconductor" works leading to massive W and Z.

He goes on with (page 214) "By contrast we don't have a reliable theory for what the Grid superflows are made from. None of the fields we've observed to date has the right properties. Theoretically, it's possible that the job is done by a single new field, the so-called Higgs field, and its attendant Higgs particle It's also possible that several fields are involved. In the theories featuring SUSY, which figure heavily in our ideas for achieving unification, there are at least two fields contributing to the superflows, and at least five particles associated with them."

So my question: Is the only purpose of a Higgs field the cancellation of long range weak forces?
 

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