How Are Base Vectors Defined in Covariance and Contravariance?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the definitions and derivations of base vectors in the context of covariance and contravariance, exploring the mathematical framework and underlying concepts. Participants are examining how these vectors are determined, particularly in relation to coordinate functions and their gradients.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how base vectors are derived for covariant and contravariant cases, specifically questioning the relationship between the gradient and the base vectors.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the confusion regarding the derivation of covariant base vectors, asking why the expression e1 = ∇u is used.
  • Some participants assert that the definitions of these base vectors are based on choosing normal vectors to the coordinate functions, with the normal vector defined by its gradient.
  • There is a reiteration that the other set of base vectors is selected as tangent vectors to the coordinate lines, although this point is not universally accepted or elaborated upon.
  • A participant attempts to clarify the rationale behind the use of these vectors by discussing their orthogonality and relationships with equivalent coordinate function bases, introducing concepts of magnitude and angles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definitions and derivations of the base vectors, with some expressing confusion and others providing explanations that may not be fully accepted by all. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity and acceptance of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions about the definitions of normal and tangent vectors, as well as the dependence on specific coordinate systems. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps involved in deriving the base vectors.

Somali_Physicist
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I'm confused at how the base vectors are found for both.

e(1) = ∂r/∂u
e(1)= ∇u
where r = xi + yj+zk
x = x(u,v,w)
y=y""
z=z""

cant understand why.
 
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Exactly what is it that confuses you?
 
Orodruin said:
Exactly what is it that confuses you?
How the covariant and contravariant base vectors are found.
For instance the covariant base vectors is found through:
e1 = ∇u , why is this?
 
It is a definition.

You choose those base vectors to be normal vectors to the coordinate functions. The normal vector of a function is given by its gradient.

The other set of base vectors is chosen to be the tangent vectors of the coordinate lines.
 
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Orodruin said:
It is a definition.

You choose those base vectors to be normal vectors to the coordinate functions. The normal vector of a function is given by its gradient.

The other set of base vectors is chosen to be the tangent vectors of the coordinate lines.
not to sound slow but just to clarify.

e1 ⋅ (equivalent coordinate function base) = 0
e1⋅(equivalent coordinate function base) = 0
e1 ⋅ (equivalent coordinate function base) = e1⋅(equivalent coordinate function base)
e1 ⋅(1/e1) = 1
∂u/∂x ⋅ ∂u/∂x = ε^2 ( magnitude)
=ε^2cosθ , if orthogonal , = 1
Is that the rational they took to get use the vectors?
 
Last edited:

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