How Are Hamiltonian and Lagrangian Related in Quantum Mechanics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formulations in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore the intuitive and mathematical aspects of these concepts, including the nature of the Lagrangian density and its distinction from the Lagrangian itself.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of the statement that "the Hamiltonian runs over the time axis while the Lagrangian runs over the trajectory of the moving particle," and seeks clarification on the intuitive relationship between the Hamiltonian and Lagrangian.
  • Another participant provides a reference to a source discussing the physical meaning of action in Lagrangian mechanics, indicating a connection to the original quote.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of providing references for quotes to facilitate understanding and context, while also noting that the interpretation of the quote may not be standard but is interesting.
  • One participant mentions that in classical mechanics, the Hamiltonian and Lagrangian are related by a Legendre Transformation, but admits to lacking an intuitive explanation for this relationship.
  • There is a distinction made between the Lagrangian used in particle mechanics and the Lagrangian density used in field theory, with the latter being described as a function of field values and their derivatives rather than configurations and velocities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the interpretations and relationships between the Hamiltonian and Lagrangian, indicating that multiple competing views remain and the discussion is not resolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the concepts involved, including the need for further study on the interpretations discussed and the distinctions between Lagrangian and Lagrangian density. There is an indication of missing intuitive explanations and unresolved questions about the relationships and transformations involved.

TimeRip496
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"The hamiltonian runs over the time axis while the lagrangian runs over the trajectory of the moving particle, the t'-axis."
What does the above statement means? Isnt hamiltonian just an operator that corresponds to total energy of a system? How is hamiltonian related to lagrangian intuitively?

Besides what is lagrangian density intuitively and mathematically? Is it equal to lagrangian?
 
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In the future, it's best to provide a reference to a quote so that folks can easily look at the source and context of the quote.
I had to do a Google search and guessed this was the source.

Concerning the statement of the quote...
The interpretation doesn't seem to be a standard interpretation... but it seems interesting and might be worthy of further study.
I can't say I understand enough of that interpretation to give a summary of the idea. (Do a search for ... hans de vries largrangian ).

Since you refer to the Hamiltonian as an operator, your context seems to be quantum mechanics or quantum field theory, which appears to be the context of the quote. (See Ch 22 of the document that comes up in the Google search.)

In classical mechanics, the Hamiltonian and Lagrangian are related by a Legendre Transformation.
I don't have yet an "intuitive" explanation of that relationship... beyond saying it's an important transformation of variables. (part of a backburner project)

While the largrangian is used in particle mechanics (with few degrees of freedom),
the Lagrangian density is used in field theory (with many more degrees of freedom).
Rather than being a function of configurations and velocities,
it is a function of the field values and their derivatives in some region of space.
Crudely speaking, the Lagrangian density is in some sense the Lagrangian-per-unit-volume.

Possibly useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian
 

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