How can an equation produce the iconic Gateway Arch using a catenary curve?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving an equation for a catenary curve that represents the shape of the Gateway Arch. Participants explore the mathematical formulation and parameters involved, focusing on the application of the catenary function in this specific context.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the catenary curve equation and suggests substituting specific values to find the constant "a" needed for the arch's dimensions.
  • Another participant attempts to manipulate the equation but expresses confusion about the steps and results, particularly regarding the logarithmic transformation.
  • A third participant questions the clarity of the graph and the values of y at specific x coordinates, seeking more information to proceed with the problem.
  • Several participants indicate they are also working on similar assignments and request hints or ideas for developing the formula.
  • One participant proposes making assumptions about the curve's symmetry and suggests a numerical approach to solve for "a" based on the arch's height and width.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding the problem, with no consensus on the correct approach or solution. Multiple perspectives on how to interpret the equation and the graph are present.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of a diagram, which may limit their ability to visualize the problem and derive the equation accurately. There are also unresolved questions about the specific values of y at given x coordinates.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and individuals interested in mathematical modeling, particularly those studying catenary curves and their applications in architecture.

turnip
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A catenary curve can be described by the following function:

y= a/2 (ex/a + e -x/a)

where a is a non-zero constant
By selecting sutable axes, devise an equation that will produce the gateway arch.

Right next to the question is a graph of an arch that is 630 feet high (on the y axis) and 630 feet long (on the x axis).



I have no idea where to start. I was thinking that I could substitute the x and y values in of 630 to find the a value and thus the normal function (since its constant). But then why not just ask for that? Why go and say devise an equation, i don't follow.

Please, I would really appreciate someone getting me started on this!
 
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here's what i could get:

y = a(e^x/a + e^-x/a)/2

630 x2 = a(e^630/a + e^-630/a)

1260/a = e^630/a + e^-630/a

ln 1260/a = 630/a -630/a = 630 - 630/a

then that would mean 0/a which is infinity (iam getting the idea that isn't the answer)

where am i going wrong?
 
turnip said:
A catenary curve can be described by the following function:

y= a/2 (ex/a + e -x/a)

where a is a non-zero constant
By selecting sutable axes, devise an equation that will produce the gateway arch.

Right next to the question is a graph of an arch that is 630 feet high (on the y axis) and 630 feet long (on the x axis).



I have no idea where to start. I was thinking that I could substitute the x and y values in of 630 to find the a value and thus the normal function (since its constant). But then why not just ask for that? Why go and say devise an equation, i don't follow.

Please, I would really appreciate someone getting me started on this!
You aren't describing the graph sufficiently. What is the value of y when x= 0? You say it is "630 feet long (on the x axis)". Is the y value when x= 630 the same as when x= 0? And you say that it is "630 feet high (on the y axis). For what x is that? 630/2= 315?
 
I have just been given this exact question to complete as part of an assignment.

Any hints or ideas how to devise a formula for the Gateway Arch.

Im a bit stuck.

Thanks.
 
student01 said:
I have just been given this exact question to complete as part of an assignment.
You said there was a picture- we do not have the picture.

Any hints or ideas how to devise a formula for the Gateway Arch.
Not unless you can answer my questions.

Im a bit stuck.

Thanks.
 
Without the diagram we have to make a few assumptions but I'll bite.

Assume that the equation is valid over the full arch and that you can shift it up or down by an arbitrary amount. Initially I'll take "a" positive and make an upside-down arch, but you can flip it later by negating "a".

Clearly y() has even symmetry and it's min is at x=0.

The min is y(0) = a so to fit the requirements we want y(+/- 315) = a + 630.

So all you need to do is solve the following transcendental equation numerically for "a",

a + 630 = a/2 ( exp(-315/a) + exp(+315/a) )

Flip it upside-down and shift it up or down as required.
 
Last edited:

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